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Mick’s Continuous TAC Multilingual Bliss! | ||
Tags: Scriptorium | Afrikaans | Wanderlust | Thai | 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Finnish | Polish | Swedish | Verbs/Conjugation | Multilingual | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Italian | Grammar | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 185 of 228 04 August 2011 at 11:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I had to go shopping Tuesday and Wednesday and I also needed a haircut, which prevented me from studying Italian as much as I would have liked during the daylight hours. I think I once wrote something in one of Ellasevia's logs about Germanic languages having an energizing effect on me late at night and I have just discovered the same to be true for Italian. I will need to update my Twitter account before going to bed but right now I'm listening to Italian pop music on YouTube. I am really enjoying the clear enunciation of some of the Italian singers, which is very helpful when for me when learning words and, of course pronunciation.
Arrivederci Mick Edited by mick33 on 04 August 2011 at 11:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 186 of 228 08 August 2011 at 11:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The first week of my 6 week challenge to learn Italian is complete. I have not accomplished much yet, but I hope listening, and singing along to music will pay off in helping me understand spoken Italian later on as listening comprehension is often my weakest skill. I'm probably the lowest ranked according to the Twitter bot, but I never expected to be the among the highest ranked in hours I just wanted to do a better job of tracking my hours when I start learning a language so that I can eventually know how many hours it takes me to learn a language to a level where I can actually use the language.
The end of week 1 has made me think about dividing the 6 week challenge into phases of learning intensity, so I have just completed the first phase (lowest intensity) listening and pronunciation practice. I'm still unclear about the "gli" sound but this is not a big deal now. Phase 2 (much higher intensity) will begin after I wake up in the morning. Sogni d'oro Mick 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 187 of 228 10 August 2011 at 9:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Phase 2 is going well, and I am already thinking of random Italian words and phrases such as "lo stomaco" (stomach) and "Che cosa prende?" (I think it means "What are you having?"). I hope this means I will quickly get to a level where I can think spontaneously in Italian. I also need to continue making, and studying, wordlists and continue looking over verb conjugations as I have so far neglected some irregular verbs that seem to be commonly used such as potere, dovere, andare, and volere.
I'm listening to more spoken Italian now, and my next post will likely be much longer. Ci vediamo Mick EDIT: I corrected a typo. I originally typed "lo stomago" due to the influence of the Spanish word el estomago. Edited by mick33 on 10 August 2011 at 9:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 188 of 228 05 September 2011 at 11:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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August became a very unusual month for me; my personal life actually is going well but somehow this meant that I had less time for Italian than I had planned. I didn't stop doing the 6WC, but I went from Phase 2 back to Phase 1 in intensity of studying because in mid-August my youngest brother came to visit and stayed for more than a week and considering that his last visit around Christmas was almost ruined by sickness (either I was sick or his children were) I couldn't bring myself to say "Yeah, I know you came here again to visit me and this time neither I nor your kids are sick, but I would rather learn Italian than spend time with you." So I spent about almost two weeks with him and ate way too much barbecued meat, saw other friends I hadn't seen in years and almost forgot about the 6WC, after that I've been busy with various projects as well as getting started on possibly returning to college in January. I've also been reading many interesting discussion threads here lately, but I'll post any relevant comments in the threads.
In spite of all that, I did actually learn some Italian and I've noticed that apostrophes and contractions seem very common so that I see pages with l' and dov'e which is difficult to get used to but it looks like this is part of the standard language...I must investigate further to be sure. A presto Buonanotte Mick Edited by mick33 on 19 September 2011 at 8:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 189 of 228 19 September 2011 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The August 6WC ended a week ago and according to Sprachprofi's Twitter bot I actually spent 45.33 hours learning Italian. YAY!!! That was more hours than I expected. Just don't ask me how I managed this as I don't know myself. I actually liked using the Twitter bot and I had hoped to get some idea of how many hours I would need to spend studying any language to a level where I could speak or write comfortably, but obviously that didn't happen. What I do know is that if I can get 45 hours with sporadic study then I can get more hours with more focused study
Another thing I've discovered is that reading Italian is a very interesting experience there are just barely enough similarities in vocabulary with English and Spanish to make me think I should understand written Italian better than I do and, as I've probably written many times before, my reading comprehension will improve as I read more. I'm also learning to recognize the direct and indirect object pronouns. Ciao Mick Edited by mick33 on 20 September 2011 at 9:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 190 of 228 20 September 2011 at 11:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I only wrote occasionally for what seems like months on end and now I write two posts within 24 hours. So what's going on? I believe I learn languages better when I post more. I was looking at my previous TAC log and remembered that when I wrote more frequently I was highly motivated to learn more; besides that I intend to continue learning Italian for the rest of the year which may mean I will not participate in the next 6 Week Challenge.
Now for something about Italian. My last post mentioned recognizing direct and indirect object pronouns so here they are. First I will list the direct object pronouns or i pronomi personali oggetto diretto: mi - me ti - you lo/la - him, it/you, her, it ci - us vi - you (plural) li/le - them (masculine/feminine) Mi, ti, ci, and vi are also reflexive pronouns but that's a topic for another message. Next the indirect object pronouns or i pronomi personali oggetto indiretto mi- to or for me ti - to or for you gli/le - to or for him/her ci - to or for us vi - to or for you (plural) gli/(a)loro - to or for them There is more overlap in pronouns but as I learn more Italian these things should be easy to remember. I must get some sleep and then continue learning Italian in the morning. Sogni d'oro e buonanotte Mick Edited by mick33 on 23 September 2011 at 8:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 191 of 228 23 September 2011 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Italian pronunciation is something I definitely need to work on. I think I've mentioned Italian pronunciation before, but the only thing I wrote was that I was focusing on it and there was nothing specific except that I was unclear about how to pronounce "gli". I hear "gli" and think it's the same as, or very similar to, the Spanish "ll" sound as heard in "llevar"; however most written descriptions of Italian pronunciation for English speakers claim that the sound I should be making is the English sound "lli" as in "million" or "stallion". Which one is right? or is it a different sound?
I want to trust my ears on this one especially since I know I've found contradictory and confusing written instructions for pronunciation of other languages before (the Swedish vowels å, ä, and ö being the most recent examples), but I doubt I've heard enough Italian to be sure. There are other concerns such as double consonants versus single consonants, but I do at least hear the difference between "sete" (thirst) and "sette" (seven) or "casa" (house) and "cassare" (to delete or to overturn). With vowels it's mostly a matter of avoiding diphthongs, but I can't distinguish "è" from "e" when speaking, although I am certain they are distinct sounds. A dopo Mick Edited by mick33 on 23 September 2011 at 11:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5705 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 192 of 228 23 September 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Good news! I found two discussion threads, here and here that give excellent explanations of how to pronounce "gli". I knew this forum would not let me down and in case you don't feel like clicking on the links above, I will cut and paste the the two responses I found to be most helpful:
First is Volte's formal phonological description quoting from a helpful Wikipedia article
For those who have no knowledge of phonolgy or IPA, here is another less technical description
I like both descriptions and the first one makes me think that maybe it is time to teach myself basic phonology and IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet). These explanations also confirm what I had suspected about "gli" being a different sound and give me clear instructions on how to pronounce it. I've already begun practicing pronouncing "gli" in various words, and must add that I love the fact that "gli" is also a word itself. I do not claim to have mastered this sound, nor do I know if I ever will, but now I won't worry anymore. My next task is to learn more about the sounds "è" (3rd person conjugation of essere) and "e" (I think it's and) and again I'm happy to know that these two are also Italian words. Arrivederci Mick Edited by mick33 on 28 September 2011 at 7:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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