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Assimil frustrations

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arkady
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Studies: German

 
 Message 9 of 25
02 March 2010 at 9:58pm | IP Logged 
Thanks guys! This certainly assuaged my concerns a bit, I think the take away lesson here is that Assimil simply functions differently than RS/Pimsleur. The entire concept of active/passive phase is probably unique and now I am happy to realize that I am mixing these methodologies together. I presume in the long run this will pay dividends.

I shall take the advice listed above and spend more time going over the lessons, it is so easy to move on because the first several lessons are for the most part easily digestible - most likely due to the fact that I am combining two other methods. Eventually the vocabulary in Assimil will greatly exceed Pimsleur/RS and will force me to slow down.

Thanks again!
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BartoG
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 Message 10 of 25
02 March 2010 at 10:17pm | IP Logged 
Arkady wrote:
I have found that with Assimil virtually nothing is retained. I can certainly go back to previous lessons and be able to read and understand 95% of each lesson, but I dont actually memorize or learn the words.

[snip]

I am definitely following the instructions, moving slowly...

The first time I did an Assimil course with a new language, I felt the same way. I then realized that even though I thought I was following the instructions, I wasn't. Specifically, I was ignoring the instructions about expectations. I'd be frustrated that something that was confusing me, but I'd ignore the note that went like this: "This point will be revisited in later chapters. Do not worry about mastering it at this time." Or I'd think that I should be learning actively, even though it was the passive phase.

When you do an Assimil course, the passive phase is, well, passive. The most important instructions to follow are not about the language, but about keeping an open mind and understanding that you're laying the groundwork for things that you'll know and understand later.

The passive phase can indeed be frustrating if you want to feel a sense of progress. Here's a tip: First, flip back seven days and re-read a lesson. Notice how easy it is compared to the first time you read it. Now, flip ahead seven days, or fourteen. A lot of it's incomprehensible, isn't it? But in three weeks, you'll understand it as easily as you understand that passage from a week ago. Pretty cool, huh? And by the time you start the active phase, the content of lesson 1 will be so obvious that the active phase will often feel like nothing more than verifying that hey, I already know this stuff!

If you want to learn with Assimil, you need only follow the instructions for the language. But if you want to feel good about it, give yourself a pass on anything they say you don't need to master yet and revisit the explanation of the passive vs. the active phase whenever you feel like you're not making progress. You're learning more than you know.
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Johntm
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 Message 11 of 25
03 March 2010 at 6:24am | IP Logged 
If you can, get your hands on Michel Thomas. I just started it and I'm almost through CD 1, which is 1 hour long. A lot of the words (at least in the Spanish version) are the same words you learn in Pimsleur Spanish, just they are introduced quicker. But I like it.
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arkady
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 Message 12 of 25
03 March 2010 at 9:52pm | IP Logged 
Anyone has experience with Michael Thomas German? I wouldnt mind trying another method, because I am retiring the Rosetta Stone as I no longer feel it is useful for me.
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arkady
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Speaks: English*, Russian*
Studies: German

 
 Message 13 of 25
03 March 2010 at 9:53pm | IP Logged 
BartoG wrote:
Arkady wrote:
I have found that with Assimil virtually nothing is retained. I can certainly go back to previous lessons and be able to read and understand 95% of each lesson, but I dont actually memorize or learn the words.

[snip]

I am definitely following the instructions, moving slowly...

The first time I did an Assimil course with a new language, I felt the same way. I then realized that even though I thought I was following the instructions, I wasn't. Specifically, I was ignoring the instructions about expectations. I'd be frustrated that something that was confusing me, but I'd ignore the note that went like this: "This point will be revisited in later chapters. Do not worry about mastering it at this time." Or I'd think that I should be learning actively, even though it was the passive phase.

When you do an Assimil course, the passive phase is, well, passive. The most important instructions to follow are not about the language, but about keeping an open mind and understanding that you're laying the groundwork for things that you'll know and understand later.

The passive phase can indeed be frustrating if you want to feel a sense of progress. Here's a tip: First, flip back seven days and re-read a lesson. Notice how easy it is compared to the first time you read it. Now, flip ahead seven days, or fourteen. A lot of it's incomprehensible, isn't it? But in three weeks, you'll understand it as easily as you understand that passage from a week ago. Pretty cool, huh? And by the time you start the active phase, the content of lesson 1 will be so obvious that the active phase will often feel like nothing more than verifying that hey, I already know this stuff!

If you want to learn with Assimil, you need only follow the instructions for the language. But if you want to feel good about it, give yourself a pass on anything they say you don't need to master yet and revisit the explanation of the passive vs. the active phase whenever you feel like you're not making progress. You're learning more than you know.


You are certainly right. The first seven lessons I could translate 100% and then all subsequent lessons were in the 90-95% range. The current lesson 24 is incredibly difficult and has a lot of concepts that I simply do not grasp. This is the reason for my frustration, I was surprised at how drastically difficult it became.
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Elexi
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 Message 14 of 25
03 March 2010 at 11:46pm | IP Logged 
Although I am a bit behind you in terms of lessons, I think that you do need to keep reviewing the previous lessons of the week and the 7 day reviews regularly. It is interesting to note that the old German Without Toil tells you explicitly to do this, whilst German With Ease does not.

As to Michel Thomas German - I had completed CD1 before deciding on my 'do the Assimil passive phase first' experiment (i.e. not speaking, not being obsessed with forming sentences, but taking in the language relatively passively in the fashion of the Methode Assimil). I think if you like the progress made with Pimsleur maybe you could either drop Assimil for now and take up Michel Thomas, or do both - this will provide you with the grammatical explanations that Pimsleur lacks in non technical language, whilst covering the same ground and a similar vocabulary (I am talking about the foundation course, the advanced goes beyond Pimsleur, although I think the advanced courses are the best thing about Michel Thomas).

If you do drop Assimil, I would, however, come back to it after finishing Thomas/Pimsleur. I did it this way round with French and I really appreciated the Assimil method.

Edited by Elexi on 03 March 2010 at 11:47pm

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datsunking1
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 Message 15 of 25
04 March 2010 at 12:24am | IP Logged 
I will literally spend a straight half hour playing the audio on repeat, walking around my room with the book saying it along with the audio. Sometimes I'll try to race the audio recording, saying it before the cd does.

IT WORKS GREAT. I remember 95%-100% of the lesson.

A major trick is doing it within an hour of going to bed, and when you wake up, listen to the audio 5 times. :)


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Spanky
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Canada
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Studies: French

 
 Message 16 of 25
04 March 2010 at 1:20am | IP Logged 
arkady wrote:
Anyone has experience with Michael Thomas German? I wouldnt mind trying another method, because I am retiring the Rosetta Stone as I no longer feel it is useful for me.


I have not yet tried Assimil, and doubt I will ever try Rosetta Stone, but I have worked through both Michel Thomas (Beginner and Advanced) and Pimsleur (1 through most of 3) in French, and am currently working concurrently through both Pimsleur and Michel Thomas in German.   I believe Pimsleur and MT complement each other nicely, and I feel that there is a real benefit in using both. If I had to go with only one, I would choose MT hands down.   


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