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Has anybody tried the Gold List method?

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
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Romanist
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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261 posts - 365 votes 
Studies: Italian

 
 Message 137 of 222
12 October 2010 at 12:40pm | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
[...] Method is methodology + material.


It seems to me that this is the wrong way around? Oxford defines the words thus:

Methodology = "a set of methods and principles used to perform a particular activity"

Method = "a particular way of doing something" or "the quality of being planned and organized"

Therefore it would seem logical to say: Methodology is Method + Material

Edited by Romanist on 12 October 2010 at 12:45pm

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plaidchuck
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Speaks: English*, Spanish

 
 Message 138 of 222
14 October 2010 at 7:44pm | IP Logged 
Well I have done two first distillation lists so far (from Spanish "headlists" from the 28th/29th of September roughly 15 days after) and so far so good I suppose. I'm trying to follow the method to the letter, so I followed the instructions as is said to not just cover the English up but decide on 8 words that you are comfortable with and discard them.

Although as a caveat I must mention that I also put these 8 words into Anki as a type of "insurance" and test so that I remember them. This is a bit of the confusing part because the one video he is working with someone and asking them polish words without any English. I will probably cover up the English or actually cover up the Spanish(as this is I think is ultimately the way to test your active knowledge) in future distillations to really put this to the test. Of course I have my reservations about this as well because we all know in the end you want to be able to think in your target language, not just translate constantly.
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Huliganov
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 Message 139 of 222
01 November 2010 at 10:58pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
Huliganov wrote:
TixhiiDon wrote:
I've just made a start on it. I can easily picture myself forgetting when the two-week
period is up and being late for my distillations, but what the hell, I'm willing to give
anything a try.


But you simply keep on going with the headlist throughout the first two weeks - or more. My cycle is about two months rather than two weeks. Two weeks is the minimum for the effect of the short-term memory to be excluded. It's not about doing an evening's worjk and then not doing anything more for two weeks. You just don't cover that part of the vocab again for two weeks.

Hope this clarifies what the method is all about.

Huliganov, it appears no one here has had any success with your method. Why do you think this is not working for us when it seems to be an awesome method for you (and presumably others)?


I suggest you read the above. There are plenty of people who have reported favorably on the method.
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Huliganov
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 Message 140 of 222
01 November 2010 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
Huliganov wrote:
In any event, I don't even need to be providing evidence, despite what Cainntear says, because all the work on staged presentation, which is all this is - a version of staged presentation which anyone should simply be able to manage for themselves putting themselves in control of pace and progress, and disengage from these hopeless teachers - was done 80 years ago, and anyone with a mind to can see the arguments for staged presentation.

Had I gone about making claims about some new scientific discovery, then Cainntear's demands for me to start furnishing peer reviewed research might be more justified, but show me where I ever made such assertions?

Except that you didn't refer to any of the previous research. In the description I read, and above, you claim it comes from your observation of people using the Gold List technique*.

If you do not tell people what you are basing your techniques on, then no-one can look up the arguments for themselves.

Unfortunately, as you appear to have rewritten the instructions since my post, it is impossible for me to go back and quote you as I no longer have access to the text I was referring to.

Huliganov wrote:
I've put down a goldlist for years and picked it back up and continued. The long term memory is the long term memory.

I find this more worrying than reassuring.

The very first thing you say in your description is "No reliance on mnemonics". Sorry, but a list is a 100% mnemonic device. As soon as you have a fixed order, each item acts as a "cue" for the next.

Most people here avoid lists for fear of learning the list, not the contents. Thanks to high-school vocab lists, I confused my French strawberries and raspberries, despite spending most of the summers of my childhood in France and preferring "yaourt framboise" to "yaourt fraise". I can remember working through the list of fruits to get to the one I wanted. Because you can use a list as a lookup device in this way, I call it "the dictionary in your head". Every school class is full of people who learn to survive on the dictionary in the head, but as you say, they come out of school unable to speak.



* Note: technique, not method. "Method" is used in standard terminology to refer to a complete language learning system of methodology and materials. A technique is one activity that can be used to help learn a language, but isn't a complete way to learn a language. Vocabulary is only part of language, so this can only be a technique.


This is only your view. You cannot prove any of that. The Goldlist Method, correctly applied, is a method of language learning which can apply to the grammar and not only the voicabularies. I have spent some time in my videos covering that. Also, at least allow me to call my system what I choose, since I did develop it, rather than yourself.

Your view that it's standard to talk of methods and methodologies only where the language material is presented to you also is balderdash. The word you are looking for is "course". Of course.

Your point about a list being a mnemonic is also utterly unhelpful. If a list is a mnemonic, then everything is a mnemonic. I think it's clear what kind of memory trick I'm referring to, and the pieces I've written illustrate them, so I think you are just trying to be difficult.

Rather than undermine me, why not produce a better way?




Edited by Huliganov on 01 November 2010 at 11:10pm

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Huliganov
Octoglot
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 Message 141 of 222
01 November 2010 at 11:14pm | IP Logged 
plaidchuck wrote:
Well I have done two first distillation lists so far (from Spanish "headlists" from the 28th/29th of September roughly 15 days after) and so far so good I suppose. I'm trying to follow the method to the letter, so I followed the instructions as is said to not just cover the English up but decide on 8 words that you are comfortable with and discard them.

Although as a caveat I must mention that I also put these 8 words into Anki as a type of "insurance" and test so that I remember them. This is a bit of the confusing part because the one video he is working with someone and asking them polish words without any English. I will probably cover up the English or actually cover up the Spanish(as this is I think is ultimately the way to test your active knowledge) in future distillations to really put this to the test. Of course I have my reservations about this as well because we all know in the end you want to be able to think in your target language, not just translate constantly.


I'm sure you do, but the goldlist method will not in itself switch the thinking switch on. That comes at the activation point, and takes three days of immersion to happen. But on the other hand I personally believe that trying to be in active mode while learning a language the whole time is a distraction that just holds most learners back from acquiring the passive vocabulary size they need to be able to read just about anything in the language and to understand just about any conversation, as well as say just about anything they like once they do undergo activation.
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Huliganov
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 Message 142 of 222
01 November 2010 at 11:19pm | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
Huliganov wrote:
In any event, I don't even need to be providing evidence, despite what Cainntear says, because all the work on staged presentation, which is all this is - a version of staged presentation which anyone should simply be able to manage for themselves putting themselves in control of pace and progress, and disengage from these hopeless teachers - was done 80 years ago, and anyone with a mind to can see the arguments for staged presentation.

Had I gone about making claims about some new scientific discovery, then Cainntear's demands for me to start furnishing peer reviewed research might be more justified, but show me where I ever made such assertions?

Except that you didn't refer to any of the previous research. In the description I read, and above, you claim it comes from your observation of people using the Gold List technique*.

If you do not tell people what you are basing your techniques on, then no-one can look up the arguments for themselves.

Unfortunately, as you appear to have rewritten the instructions since my post, it is impossible for me to go back and quote you as I no longer have access to the text I was referring to.



I haven't rewritten any instructions. Apart from anything else the original instructions were copied here by someone else, and also the majority of material is on video and datestamped on YT, and I cannot change it.

You seem to be accusing me of some underhand play in this sentence, but that's not my way. I did not give humanity this entirely free method in order to have to play games of that sort.

Save it for the people who are bilking folk out of major money for systems that are doomed to fail them entirely, which this system is designed and intended to be an antidote to.

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LangOfChildren
Tetraglot
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 Message 143 of 222
01 November 2010 at 11:39pm | IP Logged 
I'd like to add some of my (limited) experiences with the Method (yes, it is a method).

Limited, because of my own inablitity to keep going, which is my own fault. Way back, when I stumbled across the Gold List Method on Youtube, I immediately tried it out, with Turkish, which back then, I really couldn't speak or understand at all. Back then I didn't think it would be necessary to have some prior knowledge of the language for the method to work. But I actually had trouble remembering even 10 % of the words, let alone 33 %. It was also quite hard to make a list in just 20 minutes, at least for me. It felt quite rushed, so I took a little more time, but not much, because I wanted to trust the instructions. So what happened was that I had to combine many words so that the distillation could get done, which then meant that I didn't really reduce the number of words. So it went downhill from there.

Now, I actually "blame" this on me not knowing enough grammar to make meaningful fusions for the new distillations as well as me not being enough into the language in general. It appears as though it is crucial to do something else beside the word list to make the list itself work. I don't know if other people have experienced something similar.

After that I stopped, again, because I usually fail to stay on one path for too long. I may give it another try with a different language some day, and I will make sure to study grammar along-side and preferably study just *anything* about the language so that the words in the list don't feel as alien to the brain. :)
(I do remember you (Huliganov) mentioning to study grammar, but it kinda fell under the table somehow).


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Huliganov
Octoglot
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Poland
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 Message 144 of 222
02 November 2010 at 12:20am | IP Logged 
LangOfChildren wrote:
I'd like to add some of my (limited) experiences with the Method (yes, it is a method).

Limited, because of my own inablitity to keep going, which is my own fault. Way back, when I stumbled across the Gold List Method on Youtube, I immediately tried it out, with Turkish, which back then, I really couldn't speak or understand at all. Back then I didn't think it would be necessary to have some prior knowledge of the language for the method to work. But I actually had trouble remembering even 10 % of the words, let alone 33 %. It was also quite hard to make a list in just 20 minutes, at least for me. It felt quite rushed, so I took a little more time, but not much, because I wanted to trust the instructions. So what happened was that I had to combine many words so that the distillation could get done, which then meant that I didn't really reduce the number of words. So it went downhill from there.

Now, I actually "blame" this on me not knowing enough grammar to make meaningful fusions for the new distillations as well as me not being enough into the language in general. It appears as though it is crucial to do something else beside the word list to make the list itself work. I don't know if other people have experienced something similar.

After that I stopped, again, because I usually fail to stay on one path for too long. I may give it another try with a different language some day, and I will make sure to study grammar along-side and preferably study just *anything* about the language so that the words in the list don't feel as alien to the brain. :)
(I do remember you (Huliganov) mentioning to study grammar, but it kinda fell under the table somehow).



Thanks for that. Please regard the 20 minutes as just a guideline as you need to do it at whatever pace is best for you. The key is not to try to force learn them but to let the, pass by your consciousness so as to take an interest in them and enjoy them, but not "learn them for tomorrow" or feel, as in some courses, that until you are sure you know all this, you cannot go on and get any more. Nobody learned their mother tongue that way, and it's a way which people learn to learn other subjects but which is fatal for languages. If someone learns at all that way, then it certainly isn't optimally.

I used GL for a little Turkish but I also didn't continue as I needed to work on other languages, much as I like the sound and the structure of Turkish, but I know that the 500 or so I did put in there can be picked up again later.

If you can only delete outright 10% not 30%, you can also use combination to reduce the lines on the next distillation. This act of combining words is also a natural way of remembering them to the LT memory. It doesn't seem to cause a switchover to conscious, or short-term memory. And so using that as well as outright discarding can help to discard more on the next level later.

There is still quite a lot more I need to write on the method, and I think that the book will have to be a priority in 2011.


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