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Has anybody tried the Gold List method?

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
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PurGlossa
Newbie
China
Joined 4062 days ago

7 posts - 10 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 193 of 222
24 May 2011 at 7:20pm | IP Logged 
Victor, good to hear someone having success with characters using this method. I have a strong grasp of a lot of basic characters, and it's amazing the words you can make with a handful of characters... so I think blazing through some vocab is in order since this allows for much recall.

I read all 24 pages in one go (I have an addictive curiosity/behavior which makes for high highs and low lows in language learning haha) There seems to be 2 aspects of his method*: a specific focus on (and means to) getting things into the LTM & jettisoning words from your list you already have in your LTM.

The first point seems to be controversial, but the second aspect as seen in spaced-repetition and other methods is widely accepted. There are definitely words I could never intentionally look ever again and wouldn't forge tin decades, as long as I randomly expose myself every so often to Mandarin media.

Anyhow, I think there is a phase or sweet spot for this method, purely from logical conjecturing, but it seems this is the thread in which to give ones postulations =)

If one do this method too early they will not have a 'grid' for the language; lack of pronunciation, grammar, etc. with which to make connections to the words they study. They will end up simply forgetting a ton of words though thinking "Aha, that was on my list, I ought to know it." I think once people get past the intermediate level into advanced language where the vocab is very specific it wouldn't be the best method. To make one's language more refined including all the nuances, it would need to come solely through interaction with native speakers and media created by native speakers (movies, books, mp3s, etc.)

Again this is all considering the goals I have in my mind for my personal language plan and some reflections based on my experience. If your translating technical journals or want to be a celebrity movie star / singer in another country, you might take a different approach =)

I love Chinese, but it's been a tough go recently. 2 years at university, 1 year teaching in Beijing with some study, and NOW I am finally going to get a year of REAL studying in :-D Any tips would be appreciated, particularly insight on the Gold List method*.

* AKA: system/technique/exercise/方法/做法/等等..,
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Thuan
Triglot
Senior Member
GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6052 days ago

133 posts - 156 votes 
Speaks: Vietnamese, German*, English
Studies: French, Japanese, Romanian, Swedish, Mandarin

 
 Message 194 of 222
24 May 2011 at 7:58pm | IP Logged 
On his blog he mentioned that one should work through an introductory course first before embarking on the Goldlist journey.

Huliganov wrote:
you may want to give yourself the best possible accent and not sound more foreign than you have to. The best way to achieve this is to put some time into an audio only course before you even start to look at how these languages are written down.

That means that before even beginning a gold list method you could invest in a Michel Thomas and/or a Pimsleur course. These are purely auditory courses. You can do them entirely walking around with earphones on. The correct time to do these courses is right at the start before you do a gold list.

Michel Thomas method courses are really better than Pimsleur, but aren’t available yet in all languages, there are about a dozen, whereas Pimsleur’s pretty much got the list above covered.

A Pimsleur course consists of typically 30 half hour lessons, and they don’t really explain structure, they give you an almost phrase book approach. They seem typically concerned with American men going to different countries trying to get dates with local women, which can become tiresome after a while, where as all the MT method courses are unique.

A Pimsleur gives you 15 hours material, and a full, three stage Michael Thomas course gives you 16 hours of material roughly, over three phases; foundation, “advanced” and “vocabulary builder”. The total material that they give doesn’t really qualify as “advanced” but it is an advance on the “foundation” so in that sense it is. But if you have a language where there is both a Pimsleur and a Michel Thomas course, the best approach will be to kick off with the whole Michel Thomas course, and then do the whole Pimsleur one, which will give you a great sense of the sounds and structure of the language before you even see it written down.

Working through 30 hours material at an average of say an hour a day will mean that the first month will go by without you starting the gold list. But the amount in these audio courses is very finite, and the goldlist method is able to be used for much more volume as you start ot off on a beginners’ written course book, go through intermediate and final course books so that you have maybe 2000 – 2500 words just from courses, whereas the Pimsleur and the MT combined will be unlikely to get you beyond a thousand and you won’t know how to write them. But what they will mean is that when you see them written you’ll know how to pronounce them properly, and the experience will be more similar to, as you mention, the way you learned as a child. You didn’t need to ask for the audio on most words, you learned them actually as audio subconsciously, and may consciously afterwards have learned the spelling, not so much the other way round, although almost certainly that will have happened on some words. This is done for children by making them read aloud.

In summary – the correct place to fit an audio only course around the Goldlist is to do the audio only first, and the goldlist afterwards. And it’s definitely worth doing.

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aerozeplyn
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4270 days ago

141 posts - 202 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Mandarin

 
 Message 195 of 222
24 May 2011 at 8:15pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
aerozeplyn wrote:
for example,
some things that I strongly feel are VERY important for something like this to work: 1) keep a calm, peaceful
mindset (it's crazy how much more information you pull in when you're calm, peaceful, focused!); 2) do not rush
(also messed with the whole calm/peaceful thing); and 3) be mindful of the experience and enjoy writing the
words/sentences down.

That has nothing to do with Huliganov; that's just commonsense.


are you familiar with Voltaire's words, "common sense is not so common"? :)
I have taught as many as 50 drummers in a week, and I can definitely say that information is not common sense
with drumming students. With people that I tutor now, I could also say it is not common for them to have that
realization. How do I know? because I am constantly observing others impatiently working at their tasks.
Impatience is not a calm and peaceful approach, and it is far from mindful.

I know you think it's "common sense", but just because we have a full realization of something doesn't mean
everyone else in the world also shares that realization. That would just be unreasonable.
3 persons have voted this message useful



Sandman
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4530 days ago

168 posts - 389 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Japanese

 
 Message 196 of 222
24 May 2011 at 11:48pm | IP Logged 
aerozeplyn wrote:
are you familiar with Voltaire's words, "common sense is not so common"? :)
I have taught as many as 50 drummers in a week, and I can definitely say that information is not common sense
with drumming students. With people that I tutor now, I could also say it is not common for them to have that
realization. How do I know? because I am constantly observing others impatiently working at their tasks.
Impatience is not a calm and peaceful approach, and it is far from mindful.

I know you think it's "common sense", but just because we have a full realization of something doesn't mean
everyone else in the world also shares that realization. That would just be unreasonable.



The problem though is if this state of mind is something that helps SPECIFICALLY with the gold list method or is it a general principle that helps with ALL methods? When comparing the gold list method to other methods, scientifically speaking, I'd assume we would want to hold all else (including state of mind if it does indeed provide non-method specific benefits) equal when weighing the value of the Gold List method relative to alternatives. If entering into this "state of mind" is what causes the gains, rather than the method itself, then why don't I just make sure I enter a proper state of mind but use a method that is otherwise more efficient than the gold list?

Edited by Sandman on 25 May 2011 at 5:57am

1 person has voted this message useful



Rycerz
Newbie
Poland
Joined 4877 days ago

33 posts - 33 votes
Studies: Ukrainian, Polish*
Studies: English

 
 Message 197 of 222
26 May 2011 at 8:39pm | IP Logged 
hi guys! I just would like to ask how many words have you got in you destilations?
1 person has voted this message useful



amethyst32
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 4771 days ago

118 posts - 198 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Portuguese, French

 
 Message 198 of 222
16 August 2011 at 2:32am | IP Logged 
This sounds good and I want to try it out by making about 10 head lists spread out over 3 weeks, and reviewing/distilling them at 3-4 week intervals. I just have a small question and it's probably something really obvious but I'm just missing this point; why is it necessary to start a second book if you want to keep going after the third distillation? It's all very clear up until the third, but then I don't really get what's meant to happen after that and I have read the whole thread. Can anyone who uses this tell me what they do?

Thanks! :)
1 person has voted this message useful



aerozeplyn
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4270 days ago

141 posts - 202 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Mandarin

 
 Message 199 of 222
16 August 2011 at 6:21am | IP Logged 
Sandman wrote:
aerozeplyn wrote:
are you familiar with Voltaire's words, "common sense is not so
common"? :)
I have taught as many as 50 drummers in a week, and I can definitely say that information is not common sense
with drumming students. With people that I tutor now, I could also say it is not common for them to have that
realization. How do I know? because I am constantly observing others impatiently working at their tasks.
Impatience is not a calm and peaceful approach, and it is far from mindful.

I know you think it's "common sense", but just because we have a full realization of something doesn't mean
everyone else in the world also shares that realization. That would just be unreasonable.



The problem though is if this state of mind is something that helps SPECIFICALLY with the gold list method or is
it a general principle that helps with ALL methods? When comparing the gold list method to other methods,
scientifically speaking, I'd assume we would want to hold all else (including state of mind if it does indeed
provide non-method specific benefits) equal when weighing the value of the Gold List method relative to
alternatives. If entering into this "state of mind" is what causes the gains, rather than the method itself, then why
don't I just make sure I enter a proper state of mind but use a method that is otherwise more efficient than the
gold list?


To answer your last question: yes, no matter what you should be entering the appropriate state of mind anyways.
this appropriate state of mind is a relaxed one. now combine that state of mind with an effective practice
discipline and you have a stronger bond. it's that simple: the body is more capable of changing to its
environment when it is in a more relaxed state. this has more to do with your body's available energy; a relaxed
mind/body leaves more energy potential for the body to use elsewhere.

it is important to note that as you are changing to adapt to your environment, this environment includes the
subjects that you are studying, perceiving, experiencing, etc.
1 person has voted this message useful



misslanguages
Diglot
Senior Member
France
fluent-language.blog
Joined 3968 days ago

190 posts - 217 votes 
Speaks: French*, English
Studies: German

 
 Message 200 of 222
25 August 2011 at 1:02am | IP Logged 
I just read the 199 posts you guys posted, and I'm extremely confused. Reading this thread has given me a headache!
I love trying out new methods. I'm currently using the AJATT method. I don't mind giving the Gold List a try, as many people have criticized AJATT in the past, yet when they see how instructive and enriching listening to 5,000 hours of English was for me, they usually change their minds.
I guess that AJATT is kind of similar to GL because it's random spaced repetition of words you don't really know yet.
I've memorized many words effortlessly that way.
In order to fully benefit from the GL though, I'd have to first get an audio file of each word I would like to learn.
I'm an auditory learner, so reading doesn't do me much good unless I'm playing some kind of audio file at the same time.



Edited by misslanguages on 25 August 2011 at 1:03am



1 person has voted this message useful



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