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Gender Congruency in Romance Languages

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Chung
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 Message 9 of 22
21 March 2010 at 7:12pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
La fleur vs. il fiore is another example of divergence. That one is a mystery to me.


Here are some more exceptions which work against the idea that modern intra-Romance cognates should have the same gender.

milk: lait (m) (French); latte (m) (Italian); leche (f) (Spanish)

air: air (m) (French); aira (f) (Italian); aire (m) (Spanish)

fruit: fruit (m) (French); frutto (m) / frutta (f) (Italian); fruta (f) (Spanish)

smoke: fumée (f) (French); fumo (m) (Italian); humo (m) (Spanish)

sea: mer (f) (French); mare (m) (Italian); mar (m) (Spanish - but I've been told that it can be feminine in literature or certain expressions)

salt: sel (m) (French); sale (m) (Italian); sal (f) (Spanish)
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tractor
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 Message 10 of 22
21 March 2010 at 9:06pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
fruit: fruit (m) (French); frutto (m) / frutta (f) (Italian); fruta (f) (Spanish)

Fruto (m) also exists in Spanish.
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Gamauyun
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 Message 11 of 22
22 March 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged 
When the neuter gender was lost in the Romance languages, were words that were formerly neuter in Latin shifted to one particular gender, or was it more random? I have almost no knowledge of the Romance languages, aside from their influence on English, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.
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Felidae
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 Message 12 of 22
22 March 2010 at 10:01pm | IP Logged 
They shifted to masculine
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Chung
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 Message 13 of 22
22 March 2010 at 10:14pm | IP Logged 
Gamauyun wrote:
When the neuter gender was lost in the Romance languages, were words that were formerly neuter in Latin shifted to one particular gender, or was it more random? I have almost no knowledge of the Romance languages, aside from their influence on English, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.


The reinterpretation of Latin gender in the modern Romance languages doesn't seem to follow a recognizable pattern. Compare the terms for "milk" and "sea" to see how neuter Latin words are represented in French, Italian, and Spanish.

milk: lait (m) (French); latte (m) (Italian); leche (f) (Spanish) cf. LAC (n) (Latin)

air: air (m) (French); aira (f) (Italian); aire (m) (Spanish) cf. AER (m) (Latin)

fruit: fruit (m) (French); frutto (m) / frutta (f) (Italian); fruto (m) / fruta (f) (Spanish) cf. FRUCTUS (m), FRUX (f) (Latin)

smoke: fumée (f) (French); fumo (m) (Italian); humo (m) (Spanish) cf. FUMUS (m) (Latin)

sea: mer (f) (French); mare (m) (Italian); mar (m) (Spanish - but I've been told that it can be feminine in literature or certain expressions) cf. MARE (n) (Latin)

salt: sel (m) (French); sale (m) (Italian); sal (f) (Spanish) cf. SAL (m) (Latin)
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MäcØSŸ
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 Message 14 of 22
22 March 2010 at 10:24pm | IP Logged 
Gamauyun wrote:
When the neuter gender was lost in the Romance languages, were words that were formerly
neuter in Latin shifted to one particular gender, or was it more random? I have almost no knowledge of the
Romance languages, aside from their influence on English, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.


Actually in Italian and Romanian some words (many in the latter) retain the “neuter gender”, but they’re actually
words with masculine singular and feminine plural.
E.g. L’uovo ----> Le uova
L’osso----> Le ossa
Oul---->Ouăle
Osul---->Oasele


Edited by MäcØSŸ on 22 March 2010 at 10:24pm

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Cainntear
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 Message 15 of 22
22 March 2010 at 10:33pm | IP Logged 
(One minor observation -- "fumée" is a special case, as it has been rederived from the verb -- it's taken from the past participle, which isn't a common source of nouns in any language.)
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tractor
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 Message 16 of 22
22 March 2010 at 11:00pm | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
(One minor observation -- "fumée" is a special case, as it has been rederived from the verb --
it's taken from the past participle, which isn't a common source of nouns in any language.)

I don't think it is that uncommon. Past participles can be used as adjectives, and adjectives in turn as nouns. I
suspect the Latin fructus to come from a past participle as well.

Edited by tractor on 22 March 2010 at 11:06pm



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