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hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 2547 days ago

1243 posts - 216 votes 
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Slovak, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Polish

 
 Message 441 of 541
31 March 2014 at 7:51pm | IP Logged 
Today my completely new Slovak word from your notes is 'cez'.



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4354 days ago

4232 posts - 4069 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 442 of 541
02 April 2014 at 4:23am | IP Logged 
Good to see that you're still getting some use of it. As the dialogues progressively cover less frequent aspects of grammar, the comparisons should continue to reinforce that the differences in Czech and Slovak aren't confined to spelling or lexicon.



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4354 days ago

4232 posts - 4069 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 443 of 541
25 April 2014 at 7:48am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I’ve finished the exercises in Chapters 2 and 3 of Korvat auki. Even though it's designated for beginners (CEFR A2) as part of "Suomi 2", I'm getting a decent sense of accomplishment working through the comprehension exercises of short dialogues in .mp3 and training my ear in colloquial Finnish at normal speed.



(From Aku Ankka ja kumppanit - Vapaudenriemua via Ilta-Sanomat)

1) “Whoopee! First day of school and no homework at all! - Watch out for that vas...”
2) “*Grrr...* - Oh! - Oops! Sorry, Uncle Donald.”
3) “Ugh! We got homework after all.”

Cultural note for non-Scandinavians: Donald Duck and his associates (e.g. Daisy Duck, Scrooge McDuck, the Beagle Boys) are big in Fennoscandinavia. A few years ago I was amused to see a few shelves of the store stocked with the most recent issues of Donald Duck comic books in my first visit to a branch of the chain Suomalainen Kirjakauppa (Finnish bookstore) considering that I grew up with Mickey Mouse and his associates being the typical “stars” of Disney cartoons.

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

POLISH

I continued working on the last set of exercises in Chapter 3 of “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg” which consisted of drills on forming aspectual variants of a given verb. (e.g. pisać > napisać “to write” (imperfective > perfective); podpisywać > podpisać “to sign” (imperfective > perfective))



(From Pisanie pracy magisterskiej - poziom zaawansowany via Qmandorkowe Bagrzoły)

1) “Yes! Today’s the day that I write the first part of my master’s thesis!!”
2) “But first I’ll check my e-mail...”
3) “The desk is a mess. I’ll tidy it up... Ehh... But... The whole room is a mess...”
4) “OK... Now I’ll start but tea first! There’s no work without tea...”
5) “Poor hungry cat... - *Meow!*”
6) “Ooh, he’s just eaten and he wants to be petted... *Purr, purr*”
7) “Damn! I had to call the dentist!”
8) “Is it 6 o’clock already? Who starts writing a thesis at this hour? I’ll write tomorrow!!”
9) “So how much did you write today, honey? - Well, the title...”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

TURKISH

I worked through Unit 21 of “Turkish Self-Study Course” which had as its main points in grammar the negative suffix –ma / –me (e.g. gel! “come!”; gelme! “don’t come!”) and the ablative suffix –den / –dan. I also started Unit 6 of “Elementary Turkish” (pgs. 108-110, 112) where by coincidence I got (re)introduced to the negative suffix –ma / –me and learned about the present progressive tense which is marked by –iyor etc. (e.g. gelmiyorum “I’m going” etc.) (Unit 5 is a chapter full of exercises that review the preceding chapters’ exercises although for some reason are covered in the answer key unlike the other units).

***

MISCELLANEOUS

I've been emerging from a busy period (a.k.a. tax season) and expect to get back to studying at or near the clip that I had going in the second half of last year. When the forum was down during the Easter weekend, I took the extra downtime to work on that non-specialist’s guide to Uralic languages and managed to finish the sections on superlative degree and conditional mood. The guide is now about 2/3 complete.

As mentioned in my previous entry, I stumbled on the Nogai song Домбыра and ever since then have had my philological curiosity of Turkic languages rekindled. Over the last couple of weeks I’ve been browsing my copies of “Elementary Azerbaijani”, “Colloquial Kazakh” and “Uzbek: An Elementary Textbook” as well as reading Brian Greco’s blog about studying Uzbek at Arizona State - mind-tickling stuff for me. I’ve even ordered Ersen-Rasch’s “Tatarisch Lehrbuch für Anfänger und Fortgeschrittene” (Tatar textbook for beginners and intermediate students) and recently decided that as a long-term goal would like to learn about the Turkic languages as I have been doing with the Slavonic and Uralic languages. Maybe in the distant future I’ll even be able create a guide to the Turkic languages for non-specialists based on what I will have learned from those aforementioned courses in addition to what I’ve picked from my studies of Turkish.

I’ve also decided to begin low-level studying of Korean after a particularly enjoyable outing at a Korean restaurant a few weeks ago. The cuisine impressed me so much that not only have I begun devouring (literally and figuratively) what I’ve started learning from Maangchi but have my heart set on learning to read and write Hangeul and learn just enough Korean so that I can handle myself with ease in Korean restaurants (i.e. do more than knowing the phrases to use when ordering and paying and learn enough so that I can also banter with the staff on the fly). I hesitate to call it dabbling since I intend to finish at least one course in the language (possibly “Spoken World Korean” which I know is sitting on a shelf at the library nearest to my place). At the same time, I don’t plan to go for fluency since I’d prefer to get to that level with other languages. Yet if my enthusiasm for Korean gets the better of me, I may very well start following TTMIK or even spring for “Elementary Korean” or Living Language’s “Korean Complete”) and memorize a hundred or so Hanja in addition to learning Hangeul (I’ve already made Hangeul drill sheets using Excel).
______


1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4354 days ago

4232 posts - 4069 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 444 of 541
25 April 2014 at 7:53am | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From Doktor Pundor)

1) “You don’t look good. You’re pale.”
2) “I’m sending you for a blood test.”
3) “That would do me just fine.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

See here for the rationale for and information about this exercise in comparing Czech and Slovak.

The Czech sentences are red while the Slovak ones are blue. (…) denotes text that has been omitted because its subject matter does not tie back to the common translation thus making it ineligible for grammatical or lexical comparison.

Unit 7

Dialog 4 / Dialóg 4

P: A Olga? Není nemocná? Volala mi včera, říkala, že se necítí dobře. Učila se prý na zkoušku a seděla v knihovně příliš dlouho.

P: A Oľga? Nie je chorá? Volala mi včera a povedala, že sa necíti dobre. Učila sa na skúšku a sedela v knižnici veľmi dlho.

“And what about Olga / Oľga? She called me yesterday and said that she didn’t feel good. She was apparently studying for an exam and was sitting at the library for (a) very long (time).”

Cz: Olga | Sk: Oľga “Olga”

Difference in spelling reflects subtle difference in pronunciation.

Cz: nemocný | Sk: chorý “ill, sick”

These represent the typical ways to translate “ill, sick” respectively. On the other hand, each language does recognize both forms regardless of frequency. See Czech chorý (literary) and Slovak nemocný (marked as a literary or less suitable alternative to chorý)

I assimilated somewhat more readily the Slovak term because of its similarity to Polish chory and Ukrainian хворий.

Cz: říkat ~ říkala | Sk: povedať ~ povedala “to say / ~ she said”

These represent typical ways to translate “to say, tell” respectively although there is also a small aspectual difference with říkala being imperfective (~ “she was saying”) but povedal being perfective (~ “she said”).

The Czech cognate of Slovak povedať is povědět and can substitute for říct (i.e. perfective counterpart of říkat “to say”)

The Slovak cognate of Czech říct is riecť (rieknuť) which is literary. This root does live on in standard Slovak in the prefixed verbs nariekať “to bemoan”, odriekať > odriecť “to read aloud (in a dull or mechanical way); to cancel” and zriekať sa > zriecť sa “to relinquish, renounce”

Cz: cítí se | Sk: cíti sa “(s)he feels, perceives”

This pair illustrates the regular difference between the reflexive pronouns se[/url> and sa as well as the use of the rhythmic law in Slovak which is not present in Czech (here cítí se vs. cíti sa)

Cz: prý | Sk: vraj “apparently, reportedly, supposedly”

For some reason the Czech dialogue has this adverb while the Slovak one doesn’t. In any case, prý has no formal cognate in Slovak while vraj is marked as a Slovakicism by the dictionary of standard Czech.

Cz: zkouška | Sk: skúška “examination, test”

Each word is codified for its own language although they are still similar and are derivatives of zkoušet > zkusit and skúšať > skúsiť “to test, try” respectively.

Cz: knihovna | Sk: knižnica “library”

Each word is codified for its own language although they are similar and are derivatives of kniha “book” which is common to both languages. However knihovňa is marked in the dictionary of standard Slovak as an archaic variant of knižnica. Likewise, knižnice is marked as an archaic variant of knihovna in the dictionary of standard Czech.

Cz: příliš | Sk: veľmi “very”

The Slovak cognate to příliš is príliš but unlike its Czech it is translateable as “exceedingly, excessively, overly, too”. Czech příliš is translateable as “greatly, very” in addition to “exceedingly etc.”.


E: V noci ji bolela hlava. Celou noc nespala. Teď je zase nahoře v ložnici. Někdy, když je nemocná, bere si knihu do postele, ale teď asi nečte. Právě poslouchá rádio, protože zpívá její oblíbený zpěvák. Znáš tuhle českou píseň?

E: V noci ju bolela hlava. Celú noc nespala. Teraz je zasa hore v spálni. Niekedy, keď je chorá, berie si knihu do postele, ale teraz asi nečíta. Práve počúva rádio, lebo spieva jej obľúbený spevák. Nepoznáš túto slovenskú pieseň?

“She had a headache at night. She didn’t sleep all night. Now she’s again upstairs in the bedroom. Sometimes when she is sick, she takes a book to her bed but now she’s probably not reading. She’s just listening to the radio because her favourite singer is singing. Do you know this Czech song? / You wouldn’t happen to know this Slovak song?.”

Cz: zas, zase | Sk: zas, zasa, zase “again”

The most noteworthy point is that the Slovak dialogue contains zasa which has no exact match in Czech. The difference here would have vanished if the Slovak dialogue had contained zas or zase which are both acceptable in Czech and Slovak.

Cz: nahoře | Sk: hore “above, upstairs” etc.

Despite the obvious similarity, each adverb is unique to its respective language. Slovak hore can be translated in Czech as nahoře, nahoru or vzhůru depending on the speaker’s intention.

Czech nahoře can be translated in Slovak as hore or navrchu depending on the speaker’s intention.

Cz: ložnice | Sk: spálňa “bedroom”

Each word is unique to its own language, although the dictionary of standard Czech marks spalna as an obsolete variant from Russian of ložnice.

Cz: brát | Sk: brať “to bring, carry, take”

The reflexes in Czech and Slovak of Proto-Indo-European *bhere, *bhrē via Proto-Slavonic *bьrā́tī etc. are distinct but very similar.

“to take etc.; I take, you take, he/she/it takes, we take, you take, they take; I took [past tense]; take! [imperative]”
Cz: brát; beru, bereš, bere, bereme, berete, berou; bral jsem; ber! / berte!
Sk: brať; beriem, berieš, berie, berieme, beriete, berú; bral som; ber! / berte!

Cz: zpívat | Sk: spievať “to sing”

Cz: oblíbený | Sk: obľúbený “favourite”

Cz: zpěvák | Sk: spievak “singer”

Each of the preceding words is unique to its own language despite the high similarity between them.

Cz: tuhle | Sk: túto “this” (feminine accusative)

Czech attaches -hle to emphasize demonstrative pronouns while Slovak attaches -to instead to do similarly.

The declension of the demonstrative pronoun ten etc. differs in each language despite the otherwise high similarity.

“this” (masculine) (nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental)

Cz: ten, ten / toho, toho, tomu, tom, tím
Sk: ten, ten / toho, toho, tomu, tom, tým

“this” (feminine) (nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental)

Cz: ta, tu, , , , tou
Sk: tá, , tej, tej, tej, tou

“this” (neuter) (nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental)

Cz: to, to, toho, tomu, tom, tím
Sk: to, to, toho, tomu, tom, tým

All other differences have been covered in previous entries.
1 person has voted this message useful



hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 2547 days ago

1243 posts - 216 votes 
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Slovak, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Polish

 
 Message 445 of 541
25 April 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged 
So just for your information, today I learned 'vraj' as a completely new Slovak word. Although I would understand them if a Slovak said them, I also learned 'spálňa' and 'knižnica'.

I've only recently learned that 'спальня' means bedroom in Ukraine, so it was a nice surprise today to see that it's the same in Slovak.



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4354 days ago

4232 posts - 4069 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 446 of 541
20 May 2014 at 2:30am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I’ve finished the exercises in Chapters 4 and 5 of Korvat auki. Even though it's designated for beginners (CEFR A2) as part of "Suomi 2", I'm getting a decent sense of accomplishment working through the comprehension exercises of short dialogues in .mp3 and training my ear in colloquial Finnish at normal speed.



(From Oswald)

2) “They say that it’s nicer to give than to take. - Really?”
4) “Who comes up with these sayings, honestly?”

- sanonta (sanonnan, sanontaa, sanontoja) “adage, saying”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

KOREAN

I’ve been shadowing repeatedly the dialogues and vocabulary lists in Chapter 1 of “Spoken World Korean” in addition to drilling myself in learning Hangul using worksheets from the internet. After the drilling I can now read aloud some signs and write down a few things in Hangul, albeit haltingly. One thing that I’ve come to dislike is romanization even though I can see how some novices would embrace it as they try to match sound with symbol. As much as the Korean script is different, I’ve long been of the attitude that it’s best to learn to read and write any language using its own script rather than transcribe it with a convention taken from my native language. This is especially true considering that Hangul is basically an alphabet for me with the twist that each cluster of symbols or “letters” represents a syllable that would often be represented by a few spaces in languages that I’m familiar with.

E.g.

“Samsung” (7 letters, 7 spaces)
(2 spaces, 6 symbols)

ㅅ + ㅏ + ㅁ = 삼 (~ s + a + m = -sam-)
ㅅ + ㅓ + ㅇ = 성 (~ s + eo + ng = -seong-*) (this is one problem with Romanization since trade names can differ from the official Romanization scheme. In the current convention, is transcribed as ‘-eo-’ while in the older one it’s transcribed as ‘-ŏ-’)

“kimchi” (5 letters, 5 spaces)
(2 spaces, 5 symbols)

ㄱ + ㅣ + ㅁ = 김 (~ k + i + m = -kim-)
ㅊ + ㅣ = 치 (~ ch + i = -chi-)

***

POLISH

I started working on Chapter 4 of “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg” by reading short articles about dietary habits and obesity in Poland. The title of the chapter, Prośba o radę suggests that I’ll be dealing with phrases or what Splog has called “conversational connectors” related to giving and receving advice.



(From Garfield na 23.05.2013/2003/1993 via Garfield. leniwy, głodny, psotny)

1) “WHAT?”
2) “I can't be that fat! - Sorry but it is the truth.”
3) “You gotta be lying! - Impossible!”
4) “We machines cannot lie. We do not have any human emotion. You are honestly that fat!”
5) “UGH.”
6) “He, he, he”
7) “Me and my big sound card.”

- moduł głosowy (moduły głosowe, modułu głosowego) “sound card”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

TURKISH

I worked through Unit 22 of “Turkish Self-Study Course” which had as its main points in grammar the adverbs sağ(ın)da “on the right”, sol(un)da “on the left”, birkaç / biraz “some” and hiç “not any”. I also continued working in Unit 6 of “Elementary Turkish” (pgs. 112-7) where I was introduced to the negative present progressive tense which is marked by placing mi– etc. before –iyor etc. (e.g. gelmiyorum “I’m not going” etc.) and got a proper initiation into the dative case ending –(y)a / –(y)e. I say a proper initiation since Unit 21 of “Turkish Self-Study Course” introduced it as part of its introduction to the imperative (e.g. Bana bakma! “Don’t look at me!”) but the treatment there seemed perfunctory to me.

As I was working through this material I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence of working on the dative in Turkish and Ukrainian (see below).

From a philological point of view, I noted a structural parallel of being able to use the dative in sentences of necessity in a few of the languages that I’m familiar with.

BCMS/SC Treba mi ta knjiga “I need that book” (“is necessary” “(dative of ja “I”)” “that” “book” or literally “is necessary to me that book”)
Hu: Kell nekem az a könyv “I must have that book” (“is necessary” “(dative of én “I”)” “that” “book” - emphasized form i.e. “it's me who needs that book” or literally “is necessary to me that book”)
Pl: Trzeba mi tej książki. “I need that book” (“is necessary” (dative of ja “I”) “(genitive of ta “that”) “(genitive of książka “book”)” or literally “is necessary to me of that book”
Tk: Bana şu kitap gerek “I need that book” (“(dative of ben “I”)” “that” “book” “is necessary” or literally “to me that book is necessary”)
Uk: Мені потрібна та книжка “I need that book” (“(dative of я “I”)” “is needed” “that” “book” or literally “to me is needed that book”)

***

UKRAINIAN

I’ve finished the exercises on p. 160-3 (Chapter 9) of “Beginner’s Ukrainian” which focus on the dative singular of nouns and adjectives. This isn’t new material but it never hurts to do some review.

For the usual comic, I’ll be instead showing in sequence maps of Ukraine that are modelled on the Yanko Tsvetov’s work in “Mapping Stereotypes”. I welcome feedback or comments from the Ukrainian posters since they may be able to clarify further the subtext of the stereotypes many of which I’m admittedly rather clueless about.



(From Карти України очима її жителів

Map of stereotypes of Ukraine (generally from left to right)

- мадяри “Hungarians” (refers to Transcarpathia as being part of the Hungarian Kingdom and the home of Ukraine’s Hungarian minority since its annexation by the USSR / Ukrainian SSR from Czechoslovakia via Stalinist chicancery at the end of WWII)
- Україна “Ukraine” (refers to Lviv Oblast being dominated by Ukrainian nationalists and that this area represents the genuine Ukraine)
- гутцули “Hutsuls” (refers to Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast being populated by Hutsuls who are part of the Rusyns and in turn are either part of the Ukrainian ethnos or form a distinct ethnicity outright).
- вихідні на Шацьких “Day off at Shats’kykh” (I do not understand the reference for Volyn Oblast)
- тьотя Свєта “Auntie Svyeta” (I do not understand the reference for Ternopil Oblast)
- Івасюк “Johnny” (I do not understand the reference for Chernivtsi Oblast)
- файні кобіти “Great women” (non-standard and lifted from Polish cf. fajnie kobiety - I guess that the ladies from Rivne Oblast have been stereotyped as such)
- Западная Украина “Western Ukraine” [Russian] (this seems to represent an external view (not just that of Russians or Russian-speaking Ukrainians) about the country when reducing the divide between “West” and “East” both geographically and culturally)
- Одесса-мама “Mother Odessa” [Russian] (refers to Odessa being a cherished city among Russians)
- Повышение ~ “high-end” [Russian] (refers to the prestige and importance of Kyiv Oblast - and probably the universal tension between the inhabitants in the capital and those outside it)
- помідорчики на дачі “little tomatoes at the cottage” (I guess that people in Chernihiv Oblast grow a lot of tomatoes)
- Садок вишневый коло хаты “a garden of cherry trees around the house” [(?) Surzhyk - mixed Ukrainian-Russian] (I guess that Cherkasy and Kirovohrad Oblasts are known for houses surrounded by cherry orchards)
- по дороге на... “on the way to...” [Russian] (I guess that Mykolaiv Oblast draws such a blank that people pass by without giving it another look)
- кетчуп “ketchup” (I guess that Kherson Oblast is known for manufacturing ketchup)
- комуняки “commies” (refers to Crimea’s Russian majority long-standing and strong identification with the Kremlin’s control)
- Хортиця (та, що на столі) “female greyhound (and what’s on the table)” (I do not understand the reference for Zaporizhia Oblast)
- Тимошенко “Tymoshenko” (Yulia Tymoshenko was born in Dnipropetrovsk, capital of the oblast of the same name)
- ярмарка “country fair” [Russian] (I guess that Poltava Oblast is known for its country fairs)
- електричка до Конотопа “streetcar for Konotop” (the town of Konotop in Sumy Oblast is known for its streetcar network despite its size (pop. 90,000))
- по дороге на Москву “On the way to Moscow” [Russian] (this refers to the physical proximity to Russia of Kharkiv Oblast not to mention the Russophilia in some of its inhabitants)
- Донбасс “Donbass” [Russian] (this refers to the emerging rust belt in the Donets Basin of Donetsk Oblast)
- бедный сосед сбоку “poor neighbour on its side” [Russian] (I guess that this refers to poverty in Luhansk Oblast)

Apart from the stereotypes, I find it interesting that several of the labels are in Russian.

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

MISCELLANEOUS

I’ve been preoccupied by some personal problems over the last while which has affected my activity on the forum and my studies.

______


2 persons have voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4354 days ago

4232 posts - 4069 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 447 of 541
20 May 2014 at 2:39am | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From S H O O T Y - ... som Grogy)

1) “I have a new phone!”
2) “So we can talk more to each other.”
3) “... Yeah.”
5) “Sweetheart.”
6) “Sweetheart?”
7) “Sweetheart!”
8) “Can I finish reading the manual?!?”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

Unit 7

Dialog 6 / Dialóg 6

P: Kde je tvoje matka? Není v kuchyni?

P: Kde je tvoja mama? Hádam v kuchyni?

“Where’s your mother? Isn’t she in the kitchen / I’m guessing in the kitchen??”

Cz: kuchyně | Sk: kuchyňa “kitchen”

This pair is also another example of the declensional difference between these languages with “soft” feminine nouns. See here for more discussion.


E: Ne. Sedí v jídelně. Dívá se na televizi, píše dopis tetě, nebo si čte nejaký časopis. Aha, teď jde sem do pokoje.

E: Nie. Sedí v jedálni. Pozerá televíziu, píše tete list, alebo číta časopis. Aha. Teraz ide sem do izby.

“No. She’s sitting in the dining room. She’s watching TV and writing a letter to [our] aunt or she’s reading some magazine? Oh, she’s now coming here into the room.”

Cz: jídelna | Sk: jedáleň “dining room”

This pair differs in its inflection similarly to kavárna and kaviareň as examined here.

Cz: číst (si) | Sk: čítať (si) “to read”

For some reason, the courses’ author added a couple of elements to the Czech lines that are absent in the Slovak ones, however in my view these reflect stylistic choices rather than deeper differences. In this instance, the presence of the reflexive pronoun si here intensifies the basic action or implies that someone is performing the action for his/her benefit above all.

Cz: pokoj | Sk: izba “room”

When referring to a room, each word is the typical way to express the concept. However, jizba is listed in the dictionary of standard Czech although I admit that I’ve never encountered this word when dealing with my Czech friends. Pokoj however also means “calm, peace” and in this meaning the term is found in both languages as shown in the dictionary of standard Czech and the Slovak one.

Incidentally, this double meaning in pokoj is also found in the Polish cognate pokój.


P: Jdu nahore, ano? Potřebuju si s Olgou popovídat. Nesu jí dárek, jen takovou maličkost.

P: Idem hore, dobre? Potrebujem sa s Oľgou porozprávať. Nesiem jej darček, len takú maličkosť.

“I’m going upstairs, OK? I need to talk to Olga. I’m bringing a gift to her, just a little something.”

Cz: popovídat si | Sk: porozprávať sa “to speak to; chat with”

Each word is unique to its own language, although each language does have cognates of the respective root that refers to speaking. -povídat is related to povedať id. while -právať is related to -právět in [color]vyprávět “to recount, tell”.

Cz: nést | Sk: niesť “to carry”

See here and here for differences in conjugating these verbs in past and present tenses respectively.

Cz: maličkost | Sk: maličkosť “trifle”

Subtle difference in the final letter reflecting palatalization in Slovak which is absent in Czech. See here for related discussion.


E: Odkud víš, že Olga má dnes narozeniny?

E: Odkiaľ vieš, že má dnes narodeniny?

“And from where do you know that she has her birthday today?”

Cz: odkud | Sk: odkiaľ “from where”
Each word is unique to its own language.

Cz: narozeniny | Sk: narodeniny “birthday”

Each word is codified for its own language, minor as the difference is.


P: Sama mi to řekla. Nebere mě sice vážně, ale ví, že ji mám přece jenom moc rád.

P: Sama mi to povedala. Neberie ma síce vážne, ale vie, že ju mám predsa len veľmi rád.

“She herself told me. She doesn’t take me seriously but she knows that I like her very much anyway.”

Cz: sice | Sk: síce “although, even though”

Each word is codified for its own language, minor as the difference is.

Cz: přece jenom | Sk: predsa len “anyway”

Each phrase is codified for its own language.

All other differences have been covered in previous entries.
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tarvos
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Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
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 Message 448 of 541
20 May 2014 at 9:42am | IP Logged 
With the addition of Korean, your log became double interesting - the differences between
Czech/Slovak and the Croatian/Serbian variants of BCMS/SC notwithstanding.

Keep up the good work!



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