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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 473 of 541
18 October 2014 at 11:55pm | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I worked through the third and fourth texts of Ymmärrä suomea!: Villen villasukat and Mistä tunnet todellisen ystävän?.



(From Viivi & Wagner 8.10.2014 - Plaza)

1) “A tooth fell out.”
2) “It’s scurvy now. - Eat an orange!”
3) “The whole thing came out!”

- keripukki (keripukin, keripukkia, keripukkeja) “scurvy”
- kalusto (kaluston, kalustoa, kalustoja) “equipment; set”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

KOREAN

I've changed my approach and have decided to use “Korean From Zero!” as the main text and Living Language’s “Complete Korean” as a supplement. When I tried to work through Chapter 2 of “Spoken World Korean”, I quickly set the course aside since there just aren’t enough exercises to back up all of the grammar being introduced. Korean is too divergent for me to manage without a course set at a lower pace and supported by a lot of exercises. Even though I'm not a big fan of the layout of Living language’s “Korean Complete” (see here) at least it seems to introduce everything gradually with more exercises. As for actual studying since the last update, I've been listening to the audio from "Korean From Zero!" for lessons 1 and 2 (the authors have thankfully fixed the audio tags so that they lend themselves more readily to use on a .mp3 player) which introduced survival phrases and counting to 99 respectively. Lesson 1 of LL’s “Complete Korean” also focuses on survival phrases and given the lack of exercises in “Korean from Zero!” so far, I've done about half of the exercises in Lesson 1 of Complete Korean instead. I envision working through at least a few more lessons in LL since the exercises in “Korean From Zero!” don’t turn up in great quantity until lesson 6.

***

POLISH

During my trip, I used a lot of Polish and when I had some downtime I worked through Lessons 1 through 3 in Supermemo’s “Polski bez problemu! - Advanced”. The course is good for me as a supplement since it contains short texts on several topics accompanied by notes on grammar and some exercises. However I wouldn’t recommend it as a main textbook since the explanations seem perfunctory and it could use more exercises - some topics in grammar that are introduced and then explained in the notes aren’t accompanied by exercises. I'll probably get back to working with “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg”.



(From I hate You! via Qmandorkowe Bazgroły)

1) “Before
2) “What is this? You’re making fun of me, huh? That’s it! Tomorrow I’ll piss in your slippers!”

- kapeć (kapcie, kapcia) “slipper”
- kpić (sobie) z (+ gen.) > zakpić (sobie) z (+ gen.) (kpię, kpisz > zakpię, zakpisz) “to make fun of sb/sg, ridicule sb/sg”
- sikać > nasikać (sikam, sikasz > nasikam, nasikasz) “to urinate” (colloquial)

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

RUSSIAN

I've continued working with “Take off in Russian” and “New Penguin Russian Course” although the pace has dropped because of my recent trip and the associated catching up I've had to do at work and at home (i.e. chores). In the former course I’ve finished Chapters 8 and 9 (dative singular and verb aspects) while in the latter I've finished Chapters 10 and 11 (genitive, past tense and reflexive verbs).

***

TURKISH

I took along Hugo’s Turkish in 3 Months on my trip and managed to work through the first 4 units of the course. It was good to review the language and I came to like the explanations which are supported by lots of example sentences and in many ways are more effective than the explanations used in “Elementary Turkish” and “Turkish Self Study Course”. I learned about the simple past tense which was new to me but everything else was review as I had already seen it or learned about it in those other courses. The only real problems for me about “Turkish in 3 Months” are that there are few dialogues (much of the book’s audio consists of someone reading vocabulary lists and example sentences) and even fewer exercises in the course with many of these being translation drills. I’ll switch back to “Elementary Turkish” and “Turkish Self Study Course” as my main books although I’ll be referring to “Turkish in 3 Months” for explanations since these first two courses just don’t explain things as well.

***

UKRAINIAN

I've worked through the Chapter 5 of “Colloquial Ukrainian” and went over aspect, accusative, nominative plural, and how to form adjectives ending in -ний from nouns.



(From Особливості весняноï погоди via Це Прекрасно!)

1) “Hurray! It’s finally spring!”
2) “Sunshine, the birds are singing...”
4) “Śћïŧ.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

MISCELLANEOUS

I have to step it up with Russian since I have only two more months before the Turkic challenge begins.
______


1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 474 of 541
19 October 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From S H O O T Y... som Grogy)

1) “When I’m big, I’ll be like you! - Me too!”
2) “I’ll have a ton of fun friends! - I won’t be after money!”
3) “At night I’ll watch TV! - I’ll sleep in all weekend!”
4) “I won’t care what others think of me,”
5) “And I’ll have a young girlfriend who won’t see my flaws! - And I’ll be with the kids once every two weeks so that I won’t spoil them.”
6) “What else did mom say?!”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

Unit 15

Dialog 3 / Dialóg 3

P: Chceš, abych ti přečetl Věřin dopis? Dostal jsem ho včera. Píše o rodičích Zuzanina kamaráda Pavla, že se chystají prodat dědečkův dům.

P: Chceš, aby som ti prečítal Vierin list? Dostal som ho včera. Píše o rodičoch Zuzaninho kamaráta Pavla, že idú predať dedov dom.

“Do you want to read Věra's / Viera's letter? I got it yesterday. She's writing about the parents of Zuzana's friend, Pavel / Pavol (and) that they’re going to sell Grandpa’s house.”

Cz: Věřin, Zuzanina, dědečkův | Sk: Vierin, Zuzaninho, dedov
Věra / Viera’s, Zuzana’s [genitive singular],
Grandpa’s [accusative singular]”

Czech and Slovak follow different rules for marking a possessor somewhat similarly to
the “Saxon genitive” in English (i.e. nouns followed by apostrophe + 's').

In Czech, masculine animate nouns take -ův, -ova or -ovo depending on whether the possessed object is masculine, feminine or neuter respectively. Feminine animate nouns take -in, -ina or -ino. To these modified forms, one attaches case endings that usually follow the declension pattern of a noun when the possessed object is singular, but usually that of an adjective when the possessed object is plural.

In Slovak, masculine animate nouns take -ov, -ova or -ovo depending again on whether the possessed object is masculine, feminine or neuter respectively. Feminine animate nouns take -in, -ina or -ino. To these modified forms, one attaches case endings that follow the declension pattern of the possessive adjective môj “my” or a “regular” adjective such as dobrý “good”.

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old apartment.”; “Adam’s / Zuzana’s old dog.” (byt “apartment” - masculine inanimate; pes ~ psa “dog” - masculine animate)

nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental

Czech

- Adamův / Zuzanin starý byt
- Adamův / Zuzanin starý byt (non-masc. animate)
- Adamova / Zuzanina starého psa (masculine animate)
- Adamova / Zuzanina starého bytu
- Adamovu / Zuzaninu starému bytu
- Adamově / Zuzanině starém bytě
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým bytem

Slovak

- Adamov / Zuzanin starý byt
- Adamov / Zuzanin starý byt (non-masc. animate)
- Adamovho / Zuzaninho starého psa “A.’s / Z.’s old dog” (masculine animate)
- Adamovho / Zuzaninho starého bytu
- Adamovmu / Zuzaninmu starému bytu
- Adamovom / Zuzaninom starom byte
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým bytom

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old book.” (kniha “book” - feminine)

nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental

Czech

- Adamova / Zuzanina stará kniha
- Adamovu / Zuzaninu starou knihu
- Adamovy / Zuzaniny staré knihy
- Adamově / Zuzanině staré knize
- Adamově / Zuzanině staré knize
- Adamovou / Zuzaninou starou knihou

Slovak

- Adamova / Zuzanina stará kniha
- Adamovu / Zuzaninu starú knihu
- Adamovej / Zuzaninej starej knihy
- Adamovej / Zuzaninej starej knihe
- Adamovej / Zuzaninej starej knihe
- Adamovou / Zuzaninou starou knihou

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old radio.” (rádio “radio” - neuter)

nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental

Czech

- Adamovo / Zuzanino staré rádio
- Adamovo / Zuzanino staré rádio
- Adamova / Zuzanina staré rádia
- Adamovu / Zuzaninu starému rádiu
- Adamově / Zuzanině starém rádiu
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rádiem

Slovak

- Adamovo / Zuzanino staré rádio
- Adamovo / Zuzanino staré rádio
- Adamovho / Zuzaninho starého rádia
- Adamovmu / Zuzaninmu starému rádiu
- Adamovom / Zuzaninom starom rádiu
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rádiom

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old apartments.” (byty “apartments” - non-masculine animate and non-neuter plural)

Czech

- Adamovy / Zuzaniny staré byty
- Adamovy / Zuzaniny staré byty
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých bytů
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým bytům
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých bytech
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými byty

Slovak

- Adamove / Zuzanine staré byty
- Adamove / Zuzanine staré byty
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých bytov
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým bytom
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých bytoch
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými bytmi

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old parents.” (rodiče / rodičia “parents” - masculine animate plural)

nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative, instrumental

Czech

- Adamovi / Zuzanini staří rodiče
- Adamovy / Zuzaniny staré rodiče
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rodičů
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rodičům
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rodičích
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými rodiči

Slovak

- Adamovi / Zuzanini starí rodičia
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rodičov
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rodičov
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rodičom
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rodičoch
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými rodičmi

“Adam’s / Zuzana’s old radios.” (rádia / rádiá “radios” - neuter plural)

Czech

- Adamovy / Zuzaniny stará rádia
- Adamovy / Zuzaniny stará rádia
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rádií
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rádiím
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rádiích
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými rádii

Slovak

- Adamove / Zuzanine staré rádiá
- Adamove / Zuzanine staré rádiá
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rádií
- Adamovým / Zuzaniným starým rádiám
- Adamových / Zuzaniných starých rádiách
- Adamovými / Zuzaninými starými rádiami

In addition to the differences between the languages concerning the “possessor” endings, Czech exhibits an additional rule compared to Slovak where the basic -in / -ina / -ino ending for feminine possessors regularly changes -g-, -h-, -ch- -k- or -r- when one of these consonants immediately precedes the noun’s final -a in nominative singular. In more technical terms, this change is part of the palatalization caused by the presence of -i- which is more evident in Czech than in Slovak. See here under Cz: bratři | Sk: bratia “brothers” for related discussion.

“Olga ~ Olga’s / mother ~ mother’s / sister ~ sister’s / stepmother ~ stepmother’s”

Cz: Olga ~ Olžin(-a/-o) / matka ~ matčin(-a/-o) / sestra ~ sestřin(-a/-o) / macecha ~ macešin(-a/-o)
Sk: Oľga ~ Oľgin(-a/-o) / matka ~ matkin(-a/-o) / sestra ~ sestrin(-a/-o) / macocha ~ macochin(-a/-o)

Cz: chystají se (< chystat se) | Sk: chystajú sa (< chystať sa) “they intend” [+ infinitive]
Cz: jdou (< jít) | Sk: idú (< ísť) “they are going” [+ infinitive]

The Czech version is more closely translated as “they intend (to sell Grandpa’s house)” while the Slovak version is more closely translated as “they are going (to sell Grandpa’s house)”. As far as I am aware the form chystají se prodat... / chystajú sa predať... is more formal than jdou prodat... / idú predať... (cf. “I intend to...” vs. “I’m going to...”).


E: Proč ho chtějí prodat? Takový krásný starý dům! Vzpomínáš si na něj, ne? Byli jsme tam několikrát.

E: Prečo ho chcú predať? Taký krásny starý dom! Spomínaš si naň, však? Boli sme tam niekoľko ráz.

“Why do they want to sell it? Such a beautiful old home! You remember it, right? We were there several times.”

Cz: na něj | Sk: naň “on him/it”

In Czech, on “he” is often declined in accusative as něho after prepositions and if “he” is masculine animate (in literary forms něj can occur here instead). For masculine inanimate and neuter nouns, the form in accusative after a preposition is něj.

In Slovak, on “he” is declined in accusative as neho after prepositions and if “he” is masculine animate. It is possible to use with certain prepositions an alternative where neho is contracted and attached to that preposition. In these instances, the contracted form is usually -ňho (-naň is less common) when referring to a masculine animate noun but [color] when referring to a masculine inanimate or neuter noun. These contracted forms also occur with certain prepositions that require genitive.

E.g.

“My dog is at home. Have you seen him? I often think about him.” (pes “dog” [masculine animate])
Cz: Můj pes je doma. Viděl jsi ho? Myslím často na něho.
Sk: Môj pes je doma. Videl si ho? Myslím často naňho / na neho.

“My new house is in the countryside. Have you seen it? I often think about it.” (dům / dom “house” [masculine inanimate])
Cz: Můj nový dům je na vesnici. Viděl jsi ho? Myslím často na něj.
Sk: Môj nový dom je na dedine. Videl si ho? Myslím často naň.

“My new car is at repair shop. Have you seen it? I often think about it.” (auto “car” [neuter])
Cz: Moje nové auto je v autoservise. Viděl jsi ho? Myslím často na něj.
Sk: Moje nové auto je v autoservise. Videl si ho? Myslím často naň.

In short, Slovak has contracted forms for declining on “he” and ono after certain prepositions that require accusative or genitive, whereas Czech does not.

Cz: ...ne? | Sk: ...však? “...no? ...right? ...isn’t that so?” [question tag]

Však in Czech nowadays translates as “however, but” whereas in Slovak it can also mean “always” or be used as a question tag in addition to having the meaning of “however”. It is possible to use ...nie? as a question tag in Slovak like Czech ...ne? although it doesn’t occur very often in my experience.

Cz: několikrát | Sk: niekoľko ráz “a few times, several times”

A synonym for Slovak niekoľko ráz is niekoľkokrát which resembles more the Czech několikrát. Compare also Czech kolik? with Slovak koľko? “how many?”. Raz “once, one time; time, finally” is listed in the descriptive dictionary of written Czech although it is marked there as dialectal.


E: Co Pavlovy sestry? Určitě taky potřebují peníze a byt.

E: A čo Pavlove sestry? Nepotrebujú tiež peniaze a byty?

“What about Pavel's / Pavol's sisters? Surely they also need money and an apartment. / Don’t they need money and apartments too?

For some reason, the author changed the content of the dialogue somewhat so that the Czech and Slovak lines don’t have the same meaning.


P: To víš, že jo, ale sestry jsou ještě mladé. Nejspíš jim něco zůstane z prodeje. A strýcův dům v Klánovicích je taky dost velký.

P: Pravdaže, ale sú ešte mladé a aj tak im niečo najskôr ostane z predaja. A strýkov dom v Martine je tiež dosť veľký.

You know that they do, but the sisters are still young. There’ll most likely be something left for them from the sale. And Uncle’s house in Klánovice is also quite big.
For sure, but they’re still young and most likely there’ll be something left for them from the sale. And Uncle’s house in Martin is also quite big.

Cz: nejspíš(e) | Sk: najskôr “probably, most likely”

Each adverb is unique to its language with the added wrinkles that the Czech form can also be translated as “possibly” and in dialectal usage, “first, firstly” as in “she first cooked and then took a shower”. In Slovak najskôr can also mean “first, firstly” and this meaning is part of the standard.

Cz: zůstat | Sk: ostať “to remain, be left over; stay”

In Slovak, zostať more closely resembles the Czech zůstat and is a synonym for ostať used in the original dialogue. I gather that ostat is valid in Czech although the reference in the dictionary of written Czech directs me to zůstat

Cz: strýc | Sk: strýko “uncle”

Despite the difference implied by comparing the dialogues, strýc also exists in Slovak although it differs slightly in its meaning from Czech strýc by formally referring to the father's brother or colloquially to the brother of either parent in addition to being a title used by children to address any adult man (cf. “uncle” in English). In Czech strýk(o) is marked as a dialectal form and Slovakcism for standard strýc.

Here is a brief comparison of kinship terminology typically used nowadays in Czech and Slovak.

- Grandparents’ generation
“grandmother, grandfather”
Cz: babka / babička, děda / dědeček
Sk: babka / babička / stará matka / starká, dedo / deduško / starý otec / starký

- Parents’ generation
“mother, father, parent; aunt; uncle; mother-in-law, father-in-law”
Cz: matka, otec, rodič; teta; strýc; tchyně, tchán
Sk: matka, otec, rodič; teta; strýc / strýko (father’s brother), ujec / ujo (mother’s brother); svokra (wife’s point of view) / testiná (husband’s point of view) ; svokor (wife’s point of view) / tesť (husband’s point of view)

- Ego’s generation.
“brother, sister, sibling; brother-in-law, sister-in-law; male (first) cousin; female (first) cousin”
Cz: bratr, sestra, sourozenec; švagr, švagrová; bratranec, sestřenice
Sk: brat, sestra, súrodenec; švagor, švagrina; brat(r)anec, sesternica

- Children’s generation
“son, daughter, child; niece, nephew; son-in-law, daughter-in-law”
Cz: syn, dcera, dítě; neteř, bratovec / synovec; zeť, snacha
Sk: syn, dcéra, dieťa; neter, synovec; zať, nevesta

- Grandchildren’s generation
“grandson, granddaughter, grandchild”
Cz: vnuk, vnučka, vnouče
Sk: vnuk, vnučka, vnuča

Kinship terminology is more elaborate today in Slovak than in Czech with many of the specialized Czech terms below rarely used now while some have had their meanings expanded. E.g. švagr now means “brother-in-law” from either spouse’s point of view but earlier referred only to the husband of one’s sister. Compare the Czech terms below with the ones listed above.

“aunt”
Cz: stryna (wife of the strýc “father’s brother”), teta (sister of either parent), ujčina (wife the ujec “mother’s brother”)
Sk: stryná (wife of the strýc “father’s brother”), teta (sister of either parent), ujčiná (wife of the ujec / ujo “mother’s brother”)

“brother-in-law”
Cz: švagr (sister’s husband), deveř (spouse’s brother)
Sk: švagor (sister’s husband or spouse’s brother) (archaic: dever “husband’s brother”)

“(first) cousin” (female)
Cz: strýčena (daughter of the strýc “father’s brother”), tetěnice (daughter of the teta “aunt, sister of either parent”), ujčena (daughter of the ujec “mother’s brother”)
Sk: sesternica (daughter of any parent’s sibling)

“(first) cousin” (male)
Cz: strýčenec (son of the strýc “father’s brother”), tetěnec (son of the teta “aunt, sister of either parent”), ujčen (son of the ujec “mother’s brother”)
Sk: brat(r)anec (son of any parent’s sibling)

“grandfather”
Cz: děda (father’s father), stařeček (mother’s father)
Sk: starý otec etc. (father of either parent)

“grandmother”
Cz: babka / babička (father’s mother), stařenka (mother’s mother)
Sk: stará matka etc. (mother of either parent)

“nephew”
Cz: bratovec / synovec (brother’s son), sestřenec / potet (sister’s son)
Sk: synovec (sibling’s son) (archaic: bratanec “brother’s son”, sestrenec “sister’s son”)

“niece”
Cz: bratranice / synovkyně (brother’s daughter), neť / neteř (sister’s daughter)
Sk: neter (sibling’s son) (archaic: bratanica “brother’s daughter”, sestrenica “sister’s daughter”)

“sister-in-law”
Cz: švagrová (brother’s wife), zelva / zelvice (spouse’s sister)
Sk: švagriná (brother’s wife or spouse’s sister) (archaic: zolvica “husband’s sister”)

“uncle”
Cz: strýc (father’s brother), tetec (husband of the father’s sister), ujec (mother’s brother), posel (husband of the mother’s sister)
Sk: strýc / strýko (father’s brother), svák (husband of the teta “aunt”), ujec / ujo (mother’s brother)

All other differences have been covered in previous entries.
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 3766 days ago

9745 posts - 6164 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 475 of 541
19 October 2014 at 5:01am | IP Logged 
The Ukrainian one is actually from the soviet cartoon about Winnie the Pooh.

More memes with it:



(ружьё = gun, rifle)


2 persons have voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 476 of 541
26 November 2014 at 6:16am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I worked through the fifth text of Ymmärrä suomea!: Mitä Suomessa juhlitaan? and finished off the remaining exercises in Unit 1 of “Finnish for Foreigners 2”. It was good to work myself back into the latter and practice using the genitive plural some more as well as the active present participle.



(From Seinilläkin korvat on via Musta hevonen-sarjakuva)

1) “Heikki is wonderful! So kind and thoughtful.”
2) “Really good at listening...”
3) “Gotta agree...”

- myöntää (myönnän, myönsi, myöntäynyt) “to admit, concede; award; grant, issue”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

RUSSIAN

I finished “Take off in Russian” a few days ago and am about to start Chapter 17 of “New Penguin Russian Course”. I can now say that I’m familiar with the basics of Russian grammar but look forward to finishing the second course which will not only make me review the grammar taught in the first course but explore other topics to degrees that are beyond that course’s scope (e.g. passive participles, word order, genitive for negated direct objects).

As blasphemous as this sounds, I’ve given priority to Russian over the other Slavonic languages in my rotation (to say nothing about Korean) during the past month so that I can reach my goal of finishing my crash course in the language before setting off on the Turkic challenge which will start in about a month. Even at this point though, I still haven't warmed up to Russian and will be relieved once my studies of it are over so that I can say not only that I can make use of some textbook for an obscure Turkic language that's published in Russian but can again delve into Polish and Slovak which are very close to my heart.

***

TURKISH

I've been working on Chapter 8 in “Elementary Turkish” and gone over basic kinship terms, negative questions, questions in present continuous and infinitives with istemek “to want” as the auxilliary. As the Turkic challenge draws near, I’m getting a little keener on doing as much Turkish as possible so that I can get as firm a foundation as possible not only to reduce intra-Turkic interference but also get the best possible “discount” while studying other Turkic languages.

***

MISCELLANEOUS

I’m still making those notes with intra-Slavonic comparisons and also have an idea of what materials to use for at least the first few languages of the Turkic challenge. I’ll post more soon in the thread for the Turkic challenge and as always welcome input from anyone else including those who don’t plan to participate but all the same have had some experience with Turkic languages other than Turkish.
______


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Chung
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 Message 477 of 541
26 November 2014 at 6:23am | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From 11-20 via Garfield tučná léta (Czech translation “Garfield Hits the Big Time”) at Garfield a jeho stripy)

1) “I see that you’re on the hunt, Garfield.”
2) “Yeah!”
3) “They’re baking a bábovka!”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

Unit 15

Dialog 4 / Dialóg 4

J: Čí je to aktovka? Ty máš návštěvu?

J: Čia je to aktovka? Máš návštevu?

“Whose briefcase is this?”

Cz: čí / čí / čí | Sk: čí / čia / čie “whose”

In Czech, čí, etc. follows the “soft” adjectival declension which differs from what’s used in Slovak čí, etc. Compare the declensional pattern in Czech with the Slovak one. See also related discussion on “soft” adjectival declension here using the example of třetí vs. tretí under the comparison of Cz: solidní with Sk: solídny.

Cz: návštěvu | Sk: návštevu “visit” (accusative singular)

Small spelling difference although pronunciation in Czech and Slovak is identical. See here under Cz: těší | Sk: teší for more information.


H: To je Ivanova aktovka.

Z: To je Ivanova aktovka.

“It’s Ivan’s briefcase.”


J: A čí jsou ty boty [....>?

J: A čie sú to topánky?

“And whose shoes are these?”


H: To jsou bratrovy nové boty. Pěkné, co?

Z: To sú bratové nové topánky. Pekné, však?

“They’re [your / our] brother’s new shoes. Nice, huh?”


J: Jo, ale Petrovy černé boty jsou ještě hezčí. A čí je to auto před barákem?

P: Hej, ale Petrové čierne topánky sú ešte krajšie. A čie je to auto pred domom?

“Yeah, but Peter’s black shoes are even nicer. And whose car is that in front of the house?”

Cz: hezčí | Sk: krajšie “nicer, prettier”

It will be instructive to examine the formation of the comparative and superlative in Czech and Slovak.

The most frequent tendency in forming the Czech comparative is to add -ější / -ejší / -ší to a stem derived from the adjective's nominative singular form. The formation of the Slovak comparative is similar with the suffixes being -ejší / -ší instead. There is also a tendency in Slovak for the longer -ejší suffix to be used on derived adjectives as well on those where the stem ends in two consonants or whose final syllable has a long vowel. In Czech, the choice of suffixes seems random.

E.g.

"cold ~ colder; golden ~ more golden; new ~ newer; old ~ older; simple ~ simpler; young ~ younger"
Cz: chladný ~ chladnější; zlatý ~ zlatější; nový ~ novější; starý ~ starší; prostý ~ prostší; mladý ~ mladší
Sk: chladný ~ chladnejší; zlatý ~ zlatší; nový ~ novší; starý ~ starší; prostý ~ prostejší; mladý ~ mladší

The superlative is formed similarly in both languages although the prefix is nej- in Czech but naj- in Slovak.

"colder ~ coldest; more golden ~ most golden; newer ~ newest; older ~ oldest; simpler ~ simplest; younger ~ youngest"
Cz: chladnější ~ nejchladnější; zlatější ~ nejzlatější; novější ~ nejnovější; starší ~ nejstarší; prostší ~ nejprostší; mladší ~ nejmladší
Sk: chladnejší ~ najchladnejší; zlatší ~ najzlatší; novší ~ najnovší; starší ~ najstarší; prostejší ~ najprostejší; mladší ~ najmladší

Other differences in this area can be found in the irregular comparatives and superlatives.

E.g.

"bad ~ worse ~ worst; good ~ better ~ best; big ~ bigger ~ biggest; small ~ smaller ~ smallest"
Cz: špatný / zlý ~ horší ~ nejhorší; dobrý ~ lepší ~ nejlepší; velký ~ větší ~ největší; malý ~ menší ~ nejmenší
Sk: zlý ~ horší ~ najhorší; dobrý ~ lepší ~ najlepší; veľký ~ väčší ~ najväčší; malý ~ menší ~ najmenší

The comparative suffixes in Czech set off more changes in the stem’s final consonant or consonant cluster with -k- compared to their Slovak counterparts which are most likely to affect -k- only.

E.g.

Cz: drahý ~ dražší | Sk: drahý ~ drahší “expensive ~ more expensive”
Cz: jednoduchý ~ jednodušší | Sk: jednoduchý ~ jednoduchší “simple ~ simpler”
Cz: divoký ~ divočejší | Sk: divoký ~ divokejší “wild ~ wilder”
Cz: měkký ~ měkčí | Sk: mäkký ~ mäkší “soft ~ softer”
Cz: těžký ~ těžší | Sk: ťažký ~ ťažší “difficult ~ more difficult”
Cz: komunistický ~ komunističtější | Sk: komunistický ~ komunistickejší “communist ~ more communist”
Cz: slovanský ~ slovanštější | Sk: slovanský ~ slovanskejší “Slavonic ~ more Slavonic”
Cz: modrý ~ modřejší | Sk: modrý ~ modrejší “blue ~ bluer”

As it relates to the original example of Cz: hezčí | Sk: krajšie “nicer, prettier” used in the dialogue, this illustrates another difference between the languages.

Cz: krásný ~ krásnější ~ nejkrásnější
Sk: krásny ~ krajší ~ najkrajší

Cz: hezký / pěkný ~ hezčí / pěknější ~ nejhezčí / nejpěknější
Sk: pekný ~ krajší ~ najkrajší (peknejší and najpeknejší are apparently proscribed as this exchange suggests.)

Czech and Slovak also diverge on marking the comparative (and indirectly the superlative) of adverbs. The usual technique in Czech is to add the suffix -ěji / -eji to the stem derived from the adverb with the suffix changing a stem’s final -c to where applicable. In contrast, the comparative adverb in Slovak is identical to the comparative adjective’s neuter form in nominative singular.

“effectively ~ more effectively ~ most effectively; lightly ~ more lightly ~ most lightly”
Cz: účinně ~ účinněji ~ nejúčinněji; lehce ~ lehčeji ~ nejlehčeji
Sk: účinne ~ účinnejšie ~ najúčinnejšie; ľahko ~ ľahšie ~ najľahšie

Several adverbs are irregular.

E.g.

“badly ~ worse ~ worst”
Cz: špatně / zle ~ hůř(e) ~ nejhůř(e)
Sk: zle ~ horšie ~ najhoršie

“well ~ better ~ best”
Cz: dobře ~ lépe / líp ~ nejlépe / nejlíp
Sk: dobre ~ lepšie ~ najlepšie

“little ~ less ~ least”
Cz: málo ~ méně / míň ~ nejméně / nejmíň
Sk: málo ~ menej ~ najmenej

“much ~ more ~ most”
Cz: mnoho / hodně ~ víc(e) ~ nejvíc(e)
Sk: mnoho / veľa ~ viac(ej) ~ najviac(ej)

“early ~ earlier ~ earliest”
Cz: brzy ~ dřív(e) ~ nejdřív(e)
Sk: skoro ~ skôr ~ najskôr

“late ~ later ~ latest”
Cz: pozde ~ později ~ nejpozději
Sk: neskoro ~ neskôr ~ najneskôr

Cz: barák | Sk: dom “house”

The Czech term is a colloquial variant of dům. Barak in Slovak generally refers to a barracks but is also an expressive / colloquial term for a family house. Note though that Czech barák has a long vowel whereas Slovak barak does not.


H: To je tátovo [...> auto. Koupil si ho dnes. Jak se ti líbí?

P: To je otcovo auto. Kúpil si ho dnes. Ako sa ti páči?

“That’s Dad’s car. He bought it today. How do you like it?”


J: Moc mi se líbí! Je ještě krásnější než to německé auto, co má teta! Proč mi táta pořád odmitá koupit nové kolo? Irenino kolo je lepší než moje a ona je holka!

P: Veľmi sa mi páči! Je ešte lepšie ako sestrino! Prečo mi otecko stále odmieta kúpiť nový bicykel?! Irenin bicykel je lepší ako môj a ona je dievča!

“I really like it! It’s even nicer-looking than that German car that Auntie has! / better than (your / our) sister’s. Why does daddy still not want to buy [for me] a new bike? Irena’s bike is better than mine and she’s a girl!”

Cz: pořád | Sk: stále “still”

The Czech descriptive dictionary does list stále and indicates that it is synonymous with pořád. On the other hand, pořád has no formal equivalent in Slovak with stále being the usual translation.

Cz: odmítat > odmítnout | Sk: odmietať > odmietnuť “to decline, refuse, reject”

Each pair of verbs is codified for its language even though they are very similar.

Cz: kolo | Sk: bicykel “bicycle”

In Czech, a bicycle is formally known as jízdní kolo or kolo. Bicykl is an old-fashioned term. In Slovak, bicykel is the usual term. Dated synonyms are velocipéd and koleso. Regarding kolo, it refers to a lap in track and field, a round in a figurative sense (e.g. “a round of negotiations”) or a type of folk dance with the dancers arranged and moving in a circle.

Cz: než | Sk: ako “than”

In Slovak, ako and než are acceptable for translating “than” in comparisons. In contrast, Czech uses only než in these situations.


H: Ale Irena je starší než ty — a lepší sportovkyně.

Z: Ale Irena je staršia ako ty — a lepšia športovkyňa.

“But Irena is older than you - and a better athlete.”

All other differences have been covered in previous entries.
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Serpent
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serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 478 of 541
26 November 2014 at 8:49am | IP Logged 
the comic at the top, about teeth, might have contributed significantly to a couple bad dreams/nightmares i had :P of course it's mostly because i need a *massive* amount of dental work...
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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 Message 479 of 541
26 November 2014 at 10:20pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for reminding us of the Turkic challenge! I am afraid I can't use resources in Russian as of now, since
I am already using one for Georgian and it is such a burden to do so, but I hope we can set it out.



Chung
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Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 480 of 541
13 December 2014 at 9:02pm | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I've started Unit 2 of “Finnish for Foreigners 2” and was reintroduced to the third infinitive (-ma- / -mä-), nominals ending in -as and mikään “any, anything” and did some exercises using the third infinitive.



(From Oswald.fi)

1) “Do you want to learn to make origami? - Ori... what?”
2) “It's easy! You fold the paper like this, this and this.”
3) “And voilà! You have a swan. - Hmm... I don't think that looks like a swan.”
4) “There must be something wrong with this paper! - Have you forgotten the glue?”
5) “Nice work! Now this dumb paper got stuck to my fingers!”
6) “Aargh! A paper cut! This origami is killing me! - Maybe staples will work better.”
7) “Poor kid. He must have had it really bad.”

- typerä (typerän, typerää, typeriä) “dumb, silly, stupid”
- viedä jokulta hengen “to kill” (literally “to take breath from someone”) (cf. jokulta voisi mennä henki “one could get killed” ~ “the breath could go out of someone”)

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

RUSSIAN

I've finished Chapters 17 to 19 in “New Penguin Russian Course” since late November and among other things worked on the condiitonal, comparative, superlative and relative pronouns. Ten more chapters to go, and I'm not sure if I can meet my goal of finishing the course before Christmas. Yet it's not a real problem since not only is each chapter short, but I don't need to use resources in Russian for the Turkic challenge until 2016 since the Turkic languages in Russia won't be tackled until that time. Nevertheless, I can sense that my foray into Russian is coming to an end and I'd rather finish sooner rather than later so that I can get back to working harder on Polish and Slovak.

***

TURKISH

I finished working on Chapter 8 in “Elementary Turkish” as well as Unit 27 in “Turkish Self-Study Course”. In the former I studied adjectives, fleeting vowels in certain bisyllabic words, and the derivational suffix -lik etc. In the latter I reviewed interrogatives, çok “very; much, a lot; many” and learned about the suffix -ki which corresponds roughly to constructions with relative pronouns (e.g. bahçedeki kedir “the cat (that is) in the garden” ~ “in-the-garden cat”).

***

MISCELLANEOUS

I've set aside Ukrainian indefinitely and am very strongly considering the same for Korean. For the latter I've (somewhat unhappily) concluded that I need to devote more time to it so that I can get my head around it since it's so different from anything else that I've studied. The upcoming Turkic challenge and continued desire to work on Finnish, Polish, Slovak and Turkish make it very difficult for me to expect to make the progress that I want with Korean for the next 12-18 months. I'm looking into Korean meetups or Korean classes at reasonable costs in my area so that at minimum I'll be forced to keep the language in mind.
______





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