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Chung at work / Chung pri práci

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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 89 of 541
27 December 2011 at 11:13pm | IP Logged 
Kafea wrote:
I print your learning notes. Thank you so much!


Leage buorre.

If it interests you, a few of us have formed a study group where members will study at least one language from Finno-Ugric or Balto-Slavonic in 2012. You're welcome to join if you'll continue with Northern Saami, start studying a Balto-Slavonic language or switch to a different Finno-Ugric one.

I'm the only one so far who'll focus on Northern Saami for at least part of the year but other members are encouraged to satisfy their wanderlust in languages that they're not studying but are studied by others in the group. One member, hribecek is rather keen on getting an introduction to Northern Saami and so I'll be offering a short primer on the language in January or February.

Edited by Chung on 04 January 2012 at 4:33am

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Kafea
Groupie
United States
Joined 3412 days ago

78 posts - 98 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Smi

 
 Message 90 of 541
27 December 2011 at 11:30pm | IP Logged 
I have been an eager (yet sloppy) learner so far. Definitely I am interested in studying with more focus. My family likes to dabble in languages but Saami is our heritage language and I need to learn it to a conversational level. I will encourage friends to participate!
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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 91 of 541
27 December 2011 at 11:34pm | IP Logged 
Here's our group. Feel free.
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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 92 of 541
02 January 2012 at 9:50am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I've just worked through Chapter 1 of "Kuulostaa hyvältä". The course's main characters introduced themselves in the chapter's video and in so doing also taught how one can talk a little bit about oneself. I also had a bit of fun watching a few videos on Youtube. The first video comes from the Finnish news report about the national hockey team's victory in last year's IIHF World Championships. I was happy as hell that the Finns won and I was amused at 1:18 of the video when a black man expresses his joy in perfect colloquial Finnish about the team's victory. He certainly sounds like a native as opposed to the fluent but non native-speaking immigrants recorded for Supisuomea. The second video is the introduction to "It's Magic, Charlie Brown" dubbed in Finnish. It's funny and nice to be able to make out Charlie Brown's lines in Finnish (I've never seen the original episode in English so I had to rely on my Finnish). The third one is from an episode of the cartoon "Pasila" (subtitles in English). Also funny.

***

NORTHERN SAAMI

I have completed Chapter 17 of Davvin 2 (i.e. the fifth chapter of this volume) and among other things was introduced to compound past and illative plural. Here is my understanding of the chapter's main points (any misunderstandings of the material are mine alone).

1) Compound past ("perfect") is marked by combining the present tense of leat with the participle.

Maid don leat gullan? "What have you heard?"
Soai leaba vuolgán Leavnnjas "The two of them have left Lakselv."

The participle is formed by adding -n to a "strong" stem derived from the infinitive (with some extra modifications for some verb classes). This tense appears to be used similarly to the Finnish compound past which describes an action that began in the past and is considered to be still occuring or a completed action in the past whose effects are relevant for the present. It seems to me that the tense has been mistranslated as "perfect" primarily for its formal similarity to the "perfect" in English, French and German rather than its meaning or significance to native speakers. It seems to be an example of the Romance/Germanic bias in the formative period of language learning/teaching with these scholars looking at other languages through the Romance/Germanic "lens" (see also the problem when teaching the Finnish direct object as if were like the accusative in certain Indo-European languages)

As usual, one must mind the infinitive's class or ending to determine the stem to which one attaches the participle's stuffix -n. It's not a simple matter of regularly attaching the suffix to a bare stem.

i) For infinitives with an even number of syllables or of the "contracting" verbs:

E.g.

mannat "to go" > mannan ~ "gone" (-at infinitive: replace final -t with -n)
vuolgit "to leave" > vuolgán ~ "left" (-it infinitive: replace final -t with -n and change preceding -i to )
doalvut "to lead" > dolvon ~ "led" (-ut infinitive: replace final -t with -n , change preceding -u to -o and where present, change preceding diphthong to pure vowel. See here for the alternations of diphthongs)
veal'lát "to lie (down)" > veal'lán "lain (down)" (replace final -t with -n)

ii) For infinitives with an odd number of syllables:

E.g.

geahččalit "to try" > geahččalan ~ "tried" (replace final -it with -an)
leat "to be" > leamaš ~ "been" (irregular).

2) The illative plural is formed by adding -ide (for stems of an even number of syllables) or -idda (for stems of an odd number of syllables) to a stem derived from the accusative/genitive singular. Again the stem may be modified further before taking on the illative plural's suffix.

i) For stems that have an even number of syllables but a diphthong is in the syllable preceding the resultant -ii-:

E.g.

beaivi ~ beaivvi "day" > beivviide (add -ide to stem and where present change the diphthong to a pure vowel. See here for the alternations of diphthongs)

ii) For stems that have an even number of syllables ending in -e

E.g.

reive ~ reivve "letter" > reivviide (add -ide to stem and change the preceding -e to -i.)

iii) For stems that have an even number of syllables ending in -o

E.g.

ruvdno ~ ruvnno "letter" > ruvnnuide (add -ide to stem and change the preceding -o to -u.)


iv) For stems that have an even number of syllables but not ending in -e or -i:

E.g.

biila ~ biilla "car" > biillaide (add -ide to stem).
dállu ~ dálu "house" > dáluide (add -ide to stem).

v) For stems that have an odd number of syllables:

E.g.

isit ~ isida "husband" > isidiidda (add -idda to stem and where present change preceding -a to -i)

Vocabulary of Chapter 17

addit - "to give"
ahte - "that" (conjunction)
bargu - "work"
bivttas - "clothing"
coggat - "to put"
čiežanuppelogát - "seventeenth"
dakkár - "such (a)"
doaivut - "to suppose, think"
doapmat - "to jot"
gámmár - "bedroom"
gássa - "box" (gas'sa)
gávnnit - "bedsheets"
geargat - "to have time to do sg", "to arrive in time"
geassit - "to pull"
hoahppu - "haste"
juohke - "every"
lihtti - "bin"; "dish"
mas - "from where", "from what"
seahkka - "sack"
skábe - "cabinet"
vajálduhttit - "to forget"
viššal - "diligent"

Examples of Northern Saami taken from my answers to the exercises

1. Goas dii lehpet boahtán?
2. Maid don leat vuoššan?
3. Goas mánát leat boradan?
4. Boahtibago Ánde ja Biera fárrui?
5. Gosa don leat bidjan lihtiid?
6. Gosa mánát leat coggan biillaid?

Boldog új évet! / Szczęśliwego Nowego Roku! / Lihkolaš ođđa jagi! / Šťastný nový rok! / Hyvää uttaa vuotta!
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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 93 of 541
09 January 2012 at 6:09am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I've just worked through Chapter 2 of "Kuulostaa hyvältä". The course's dialogue was about two of the main characters, Anssi and Jutta making some small talk about where they live and setting off on a last-minute trip to buy groceries. The exercises were trouble-free and it's good just to write sentences or make new ones drawing on a pool of phrases or words.

***

NORTHERN SAAMI

I have completed Chapter 18 of Davvin 2 (i.e. the sixth chapter of this volume) and among other things was introduced to simple past, locative plural and a figurative use of the illative. Here is my understanding of the chapter's main points (any misunderstandings of the material are mine alone).

1) Simple past ("preterite") for verbs of an infinitive with an even number of syllables and ending in -at or -ut is marked by adding endings to a modified stem based on the infinitive..

E.g.

juoigat "to do yoiking" (juoigat > *juoiga-)

mun juigen "I did yoiking" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -a of stem to -e, add personal suffix of -n, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive or in other words it stays "strong")
don juiget "you did yoiking" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -a of stem to -e, add personal suffix of -t, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive or in other words it stays "strong")
son juoiggai "he/she did yoiking" (N.B. weaken the infinitive's consonant grade if applicable and just add personal suffix -i to stem's end.)

čierrut "to cry" (čierrut > *čierru-)

mun čirron "I cried" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -u of stem to -o, add personal suffix of -n, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive or in other words it stays "strong".)
don čirrot "you cried" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -u of stem to -o, add personal suffix of -t, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive or in other words it stays "strong")
son čierui "he/she cried" (N.B. weaken the infinitive's consonant grade if applicable and just add personal suffix -i to stem's end.)

See 2) in Chapter 10 for information on the changes for diphthongs.

As is common in other languages, "to be" is irregular.

leat "to be"

mun ledjen "I was"
don ledjet "you were"
son lei "he/she was"

2) The locative plural is formed in the same way as the comitative singular. In other words the case forms look the same but context or the rest of the sentence seems to make it clear enough which case is being used. See 2) in Chapter 11 and 2) in Chapter 15 for information on comitative singular for nominal stems with an even and odd number of syllables respectively.

3) The illative can be used to translate temporal phrases with "for" or "until". As my copy of Davvin is meant for Finns, it basically means that the use of illative in Northern Saami in this way can be expressed by illative or translative in Finnish depending on the expression.

Gosa doai mannaba idjii? "Where are the two of you going for the night?"
Son lei Avvilis lávvordahkii. "He was in Ivalo until Saturday."

Vocabulary of Chapter 18

dálki - "weather"
dorski - "cod"
duot - "that [pointing to sg/sb far away]"
fállat - "to offer"
gávccinuppelogát - "eighteenth"
gaskaidja - "midnight"
giisá - "box, container"
gohcit - "to stay awake"
guhká - "for a long time"
guolli - "fish"
ikte - "yesterday"
jávkat - "to linger, stay"
juoga - "something"
lihkkat - "to get up [from bed]"
liidni - "linen, cloth"
mearragáddi - "seashore"
moadde - "a couple of, a few"
sáidi - "pollock, saithe"
sihtat - "to want"

Examples of Northern Saami taken from my answers to the exercises

1. Ledjetgo don ikte Mázes? De ledjen.
2. Dolvotgo don reivve bostii? Na dieđusge. Mun dolvon ikte juo.
3. Fálaigo áhkku gáfe? Na fálai dieđusge.
4. Áigguigo Ánde vuolgit Ruŧŧii? Áiggui dat gal vuolgit.
5. Man olu čuigetgo don iđđes? Iđđen mun čuigen badjel golbmalogi kilomehtera.
6. Maid don borret? Mun borren dorski.

Edited by Chung on 09 January 2012 at 8:28pm

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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 94 of 541
22 January 2012 at 4:46am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I've just worked through Chapter 3 of "Kuulostaa hyvältä". The course's dialogue was about Anssi and Jutta buying some groceries while one of the big points in grammar was the partitive singular.

***

NORTHERN SAAMI

I have completed Chapter 19 of Davvin 2 (i.e. the seventh chapter of this volume) and among other things was shown more about simple past and introduced to postpositions. Here is my understanding of the chapter's main points (any misunderstandings of the material are mine alone).

1) Simple past ("preterite") for verbs of an infinitive with an even number of syllables and ending in -it is marked by adding endings to a modified stem based on the infinitive.

E.g.

eallit "to live" (eallit > **ealli-)

mun ellen "I lived" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -i of stem to -e, add personal suffix of -n, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive. In other words it stays "strong")
don ellet "you lived" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, change final -i of stem to -e, add personal suffix of -t, the consonant grade remains the same as in the infinitive. In other words it stays "strong")
son elii "he/she lived" (N.B. change diphthong if applicable, weaken the infinitive's consonant grade and just add personal suffix -i to stem's end.)

See 2) in Chapter 10 for information on the changes for diphthongs.

2) The following postpositions in Northern Saami govern the genitive:
geahčen "at sb's home"; "out of sb's home"
guoras "beside sb/sg"; "from beside sg/sb"
luhtte "in the vicinity of sb/sg"; "from the vicinity of sb/sg"
mielde "together (with)"; "(along) with sb/sg";
ovddas "in front of sb/sg"; "from the front of sb/sg"
vuolde "below sb/sg"; "from below sb/sg"

Vocabulary of Chapter 19

alit - "blue"
buohta - "opposite"
dakko - "there"
geaidnu - "road"
gokko - "where (exactly)"
guovlu - "area"; "direction"
gurut - "left"
ivdni - "colour"
johka - "river"
kilomehter - "kilometer"
luohkká - "hill"
návet - "cowshed"
oaidnit - "to see"
olgeš - "right"
olggobealde - "outside sg"
olmmái - "man"
ovvcinuppelogát - "nineteenth"
ruovna - "green"

Examples of Northern Saami taken from my answers to the exercises

1. Bárdni lea seaŋgga vuolde.
2. Biila lea viesu guoras.
3. Marjá lea Iŋggá geahčen.
4. Giitu deaja ovddas.
5. Márjá lea áhči guoras.
6. Beana lea biilla vuolde.

***

I've lately had less time to devote to learning languages and this can be seen in the time elapsed since the previous log entry. Unfortunately I don't expect the situation to improve much just yet.
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Kafea
Groupie
United States
Joined 3412 days ago

78 posts - 98 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Smi

 
 Message 95 of 541
22 January 2012 at 4:50am | IP Logged 
What is sb/sg? (Something) singular?
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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 5636 days ago

4228 posts - 8256 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 96 of 541
22 January 2012 at 4:53am | IP Logged 
sb = "somebody"
sg = "something"


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