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The dreaded IPA | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Ubik Senior Member United States ubykh.wordpress.com/ Joined 5114 days ago 147 posts - 176 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Arabic (Egyptian), German, Spanish | Message 1 of 30 12 May 2010 at 10:30pm | IP Logged |
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Im posting this to basically get an idea of different members' opinions, usage of, etc of the IPA. Personally I find the IPA very boring & tedious. I kinda want to be talked out of it so to speak. I tried learning it mainly because when I read about other languages (language dictionaries et al) the IPA is used a lot and I dont want to have to look the symbols up while Im reading so I usually just gloss over them and go on to the next thing. I actually have very good pronunciation with foreign languages (even ones I know nothing about) and I can commit the pronunciations to memory quite easily. So, is the IPA then kind of useless for me to even bother with? Is it more a tool for people who cant automatically seem to "get" the language's pronunciation, etc?
Just looking for some general thoughts... Thanks in advance! Edited by Ubik on 12 May 2010 at 10:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6166 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 30 12 May 2010 at 11:06pm | IP Logged |
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IPA is pretty easy for me, but I'm a math/linguist guy. Apparently that makes a difference. I like it so much more than approximations because most books are `too` approximate - subtleties of pronunciation aren't taught or differentiated between or even mentioned.
Edit: Plus, IPA is always the same. Different books use different transliteration or pronunciation approximation conventions, even for the same language - which can get confusing! Edit Edit: Plus Plus, the differences between British and American pronunciations differ a lot, especially in vowels, which makes "... is pronounced like the 'a' in 'father'" ambiguous. Edited by goosefrabbas on 12 May 2010 at 11:21pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5494 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 3 of 30 12 May 2010 at 11:14pm | IP Logged |
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I would advise against not learning at least some of it. The IPA has personally helped
me a lot. Oftentimes I will be perusing the phonology of a new language, perplexed at its mysteries. look at its transcription, and realize that a particular sound is the same or at least very similar to one in a language I already know—thusly the language becomes ever-so-slightly less mysterious. This kind of transference is only possible when you have a consistent way to represent all sounds. Furthermore you need not learn all the symbols in one go; that would be quite tedious. Rather, just learn the sounds for the languages you know, and since you already know how to make them it shouldn't be that difficult. Additionally, learning some IPA forces you to learn a little about and become consciously aware of phonetics and phonology, both of which are quite helpful in language learning. Finally, it equips you to talk about specific sounds with other people consistently and descriptively without resorting to clumsy constructions like "the ah in father, unless you're not an AE speaker in which case..." Edited by egill on 13 May 2010 at 10:04pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| luhmann Senior Member Brazil Joined 5131 days ago 156 posts - 271 votes Speaks: Portuguese* Studies: Mandarin, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Persian, Arabic (classical) | Message 4 of 30 12 May 2010 at 11:32pm | IP Logged |
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You cannot simply mimic the sounds of a foreing language you know nothing about. Your listening is subject to illusions: you are deaf to many distinctions that do not exist you your mother tongue. Explicitly studying phonetics is optional, but, at any rate, you can only pronounce acurately after you have acquired your target language's phonemic system.
7 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ubik Senior Member United States ubykh.wordpress.com/ Joined 5114 days ago 147 posts - 176 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Arabic (Egyptian), German, Spanish | Message 5 of 30 12 May 2010 at 11:53pm | IP Logged |
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I had in my possession a very good linguistics book which dealt with phonology, morphology, the IPA, etc. I unfortunately had to turn it in (it was an interlibrary loan). I do plan on getting it again -- perhaps buying it this time.
I understand what luhmann is saying as well. I cant say that Im perfect, but I do have a good natural talent for mimicry so I take that and just keep listening and listening to native speakers and have them correct me until I get it right or as close to right as possible. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| boaby Newbie Ireland Joined 5278 days ago 16 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Portuguese, Catalan | Message 6 of 30 13 May 2010 at 1:22am | IP Logged |
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Wow. I'm the opposite; I'm finding trying to learn to read IPA symbols is opening up areas of Linguistics and
language learning strategies that seemed far too academic before. It allows me to hear things I couldn't before about pronunciation, accents and dialects in my native and target languages. The connection to aspects of academic Linguistics and Applied linguistics has also given me some terms to describe and note differences when I hear them, which then allows me to hear more of them. That's a positive feedback cycle that works for me! I'm not saying absorbing the IPA is easy, far from it, but as tools go it seems to be one that will fully repay the effort involved, especially if you have plans to learn several languages. Nonetheless, if you find it boring it may be because of a clash with the learning approaches that seem to most inspire you (listening, mimicking). It's often a good idea to play to your strengths in the language learning game. Have a look at this free ebook that describes some successful language learners who have very different but successful approaches. Edited by boaby on 13 May 2010 at 7:02pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| MäcØSŸ Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5607 days ago 259 posts - 392 votes Speaks: Italian*, EnglishC2 Studies: German | Message 7 of 30 13 May 2010 at 10:10am | IP Logged |
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Most people cannot acquire a good pronunciation by listening, no matter how much they try. I bet everyone has
met in their lives a foreigner who’ve been living in their country for decades and still has an awful accent. Also, people who like to study languages are usually interested in linguistics, so the IPA shouldn’t be a great deal. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5645 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 30 13 May 2010 at 11:39am | IP Logged |
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Very unfortunatly the IPA was neglected during my studies of Romance Philology, already at those times I wanted to learn the IPA well, but it wasn't taught by our professors. What a pity! Now I am very eager to aquire some knowlege about it - tiny bi by tiny bit - so all people who quote IPA - symbols in their posts and refer to them will make me very happy - because such posts are excellent IPA - practice for me.
I want to know the IPA - symbols for all my languages, but especially the IPA of Danish is very important for me. Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful |
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