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The age old question - Polish or Russian? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Thatzright Diglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5459 days ago 202 posts - 311 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: French, Swedish, German, Russian | Message 1 of 15 31 May 2010 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hello, I simply can't help miserably falling victim to my wanderlust anymore. Or maybe it's not so much a case of wanderlust as it simply is wanting to start a smaller project on the side of my French and Swedish studies, something that I could come back to when I have time or just get tired of those two languages for a while. Ironically I would now like to choose from languages that would in all probability be, in fact, harder than French or Swedish, but hey. Of course English is not my native language, but it's not like Finnish would be of any use whatsoever learning any of these so you can pretty much regard me as a regular native Englishman here.
The languages I've mainly been thinking about are Hungarian, Polish and Russian. I've briefly studied Russian before and can remember about ten to fifteen verbs, basic greetings and sayings and the Latin equivalents for every letter of the cyrillic alphabet albeit I can't read cyrillic text fluently (so not much). Polish intrigues me because I would like to learn a Slavic language, but am not sure if that should be Polish or Russian. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Obviously Russian would be perhaps somewhat more useful for me since Russia and Finland are neighbouring countries and thus deal with each other a whole lot - Russian is a widely appreciated and useful language to know in the country. I'm greatly intrigued by the history of Russia as a country, listen to some Russian music and would like to visit the country on numerous occasions, just not so sure whether or not I'd like to live there for reasons I don't wish to point out here. Poland is a more distant country in Europe and the Polish language is significantly smaller than Russian. Then again, Poland is a member of the European Union and hey, the more member languages an EU citizen knows the better. Poland is a country I would actually like to live in, too, if I knew the language. Polish could bring about some unexpected job opportunities inside the Union aswell - not to say that the EU doesn't need people fluent in Russian. With Polish, there'd be no need to learn a new alphabet either. Hungarian is there just for... I don't know, maybe it's a stupid, reckless or/and foolish idea to begin with. I don't know, it just intrigues me but I know I should stay away from it, it would probably be easier to get even Russian or Polish to a reasonably understandable level than to do the same in Hungarian. Plus it's smaller than both of them in terms of speakers and far less useful. There's just something about it though. It'll probably be Russian or Polish either way, but feel free to point out more reasons why not Hungarian anyway : D If at all possible refrain from telling me to simply stick to French and Swedish for the time being - that's exactly what I am doing and I definitely won't drop them or anything, but I just want something to learn at the side of these two, something of minor importance as opposed to the major importance of those two for me. I would simply like to hear your opinion on which one is more useful - and yeah, I guess you could try to analyze which one is "easier" too, but of course that can't really be decided. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5095 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 15 31 May 2010 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's a hard choice indeed, mate. It's a battle between the two Slavic giants.
I'm not sure about that. For you, as a native speaker of Finnish, Hungarian might be just that tiny bit easier than for everybody else in Europe. Therefore, Polish, Russian and Hungarian should be just as difficult for you. I have been intrigued by Hungarian several times, but there wasn't much about the country itself that would keep me interested. It's a small country and Hungarians seem not to have much presence outside it. The lack of learning material was also discouraging. One thing you haven't mentioned is what those particular languages give you as regards understanding other (Slavic) languages. Russian is mutually intelligible with Belarussian and Ukrainian. You will also understand a bit of Bulgarian and Polish. Polish is, to a large degree, mutually intelligible with Slovak and Czech. We can understand a great deal of Belarussian, Ukrainian and some Russian as well. And since you like history. This is a great video about Polish history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quld5950v6w [YouTube: "Polish history in 10 minutes"] I love it. Edited by Derian on 31 May 2010 at 6:41pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Risch Groupie United States Joined 5376 days ago 49 posts - 71 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 15 31 May 2010 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You have good taste. Once I master the Western European triumvirate (Spanish, French,
German) I, too, plan on investing in one of the languages you mentioned. For me, both Polish and Hungarian appeal to me because I have visited the countries where they are spoken and found myself quite enchanted with the natives' speech. I found Polish melodic and soothing, with all of those "swooshing" sounds which somehow remind me of lapping waves on the shore. Hungarian, which seems to lack any difficult phonemes (for me anyway), somehow sounds less exotic despite a radically different vocabulary and grammar. The appeal of the Hungarian language for me is due to the sheer challenge it poses and the potential rewards of conquering a difficult, mysterious, non-IE tongue. Although I have not traveled to Russia, this seems like the most sensible language to learn for Eastern Europe. I am not as enamored with the sound of Russian as with the others; however, authors of this language are among my favorite and I would love to enjoy this rich body of literature in its natural setting. I will probably not begin this fourth language for a few years, providing me with plenty of time to choose. It seems to me that Russian would be the most pragmatic choice due to its prominence, number of speakers, and the relative lack of English penetration, but pragmatism alone won't hold your interest in the long run. My advice to you would be to spend a couple of weeks delving into each of these three separately and decide which one you have the most passion for. I'll be interested to find out which one you eventually choose. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5235 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 4 of 15 31 May 2010 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I picked Russian because it is the most widespread Eastern European language. However, I do believe that you can't go wrong with Polish either. Also, it seems that there are far more Russian speakers than Polish speakers, so an ability in Polish may come in handy for you.
As for Polish, I think it may be easier - Latin alphabet, fixed stress, and just one more case than Russian (vocative). If anyone knows, how irregular is the Polish grammar? Edited by chucknorrisman on 31 May 2010 at 10:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5235 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 5 of 15 31 May 2010 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
Aside from the difficulty of finding Hungarian materials, wouldn't Hungarian be much (not just a little) easier for a Finnish speaker? They are both languages with similar grammar, and I don't know how much each language diverged from each other but I am guessing there would be some cognates, especially in the more basic level, because they are both Finno-Ugric languages. Edited by chucknorrisman on 31 May 2010 at 11:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lynxrunner Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States crittercryptics.com Joined 5709 days ago 361 posts - 461 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, French Studies: Russian, Swedish, Haitian Creole | Message 6 of 15 01 June 2010 at 12:39am | IP Logged | |||||
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I actually think that Russian is slightly easier than Polish. I decided to take a look
at Polish and man, was I surprised! First of all, I hate the Polish alphabet with a fury that would make a thousand burning suns seem meek in comparison. So many diacritics crowding up the words! Ugh, it's a pain to see. Oh, and this little beauty: szcz. What the shizzle is up with that?! The same sound (or what used to be the same sound) in Russian is portrayed simply as щ. Much more concise and elegant! I can't stand seeing Slavic languages written in Latin script. They just look so ugly. Transliterated Russian is just ugly. Learning the alphabet is a minor thing, and it's fun, too! Don't be fooled into thinking that Polish, by nature of its Latin alphabet, will be easier to read... I find it a pain. Secondly, I also find Polish more difficult to pronounce than Russian. You heard me right: more difficult! I think Polish may have (or allow) more consonant clusters than Russian. The most I've ever seen in Russian is 4, while this Polish word had 5: bezwzględny, meaning absolute. Oh, and the nasal vowels! I can make them, but I cannot hear them at all when Poles speak. I try really hard to hear them but I can't make them out at all. Polish has regular stress, which is a blessing compared to Russian's bizarre stress pattern (that is to say, you can't tell stress from the freaking word). Thirdly, Polish grammar. I haven't looked much into it, but from my very superficial dabbling in Polish, I think Polish grammar may be harder. There certainly seems to be a lot of conjugation, as opposed to Russian which doesn't have that much conjugation. For example, from the word "wycierać" you can derive something like 45 forms, including such gems as "wycierałybyście - you (women) would wipe" and "wycierająco - 'wipingly'". All in all, I think that Polish is harder than Russian. Perhaps I have the wrong impression, but it is mine. If this attracts you to Polish, go ahead! If you prefer something slightly easier, I think Russian would be preferred (there are way more materials for Russian than Polish in my local bookstore). Either way, I think Slavic languages are great fun, so I wish you good luck for whichever you choose! (I don't know anything about Hungarian which is why I refrained from commenting on it.) 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Danac Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5135 days ago 162 posts - 257 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, Serbo-Croatian, French, Russian, Esperanto | Message 7 of 15 01 June 2010 at 12:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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Although I have not traveled to Russia, this seems like the most sensible language to learn for Eastern Europe.
I couldn't help commenting on this. Although Russian used to be the dominant secondary language in Eastern Europe, many people won't be able to speak it today, especially young people. Those who learned it in school years ago may know a little of it, but they might be reluctant to use it, or even offended by it. Of course, attitudes change over time, but to expect to be able to use it extensively in Eastern Europe as a whole is not necessarily an option. Exceptions: Ukraine and Belarus (as already mentioned) Speaking English or maybe German will probably be better for communicating with people unless you know their specific language. I picked Russian because it is the most widespread Eastern European language. Hmm, maybe. Its spread wouldn't be in Eastern Europe, but rather throughout the former Soviet republics of Central Asia where many people speak Russian, and the Caucasus. This isn't a campaign against Russian, but it's just to say that its use in Eastern Europe is limited. By the way, learn what you want for whatever reason you might want. Polish, Russian and Hungarian are all fine languages, so go ahead. I wouldn't personally care too much about details like number of speakers or "usability", but going to the country or living there might be something I'd take into consideration beforehand. In the end, it's mostly about motivation. If you really want to learn it you probably will, but if you find yourself going through e.g. Russian because it's "practical" or "has more speakers" without enjoying it, just let it go. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Risch Groupie United States Joined 5376 days ago 49 posts - 71 votes Speaks: English* | Message 8 of 15 01 June 2010 at 4:17am | IP Logged | |||||
I originally wrote "most sensible of Slavic languages", but then I remembered that we were also talking about Hungarian. I was judging sensibility on number of native speakers, amount of music, films, and literature, and the availability of English- language learning resources. I have heard about the decreased utility of Russian as a lingua franca in Eastern Europe and its supplanting by English. Just like nearly everywhere else. This trend is both a blessing and a hindrance to Anglophones. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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