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Khmer vs Burmese vs Thai vs Vietnamese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6262 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 1 of 26 04 June 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Calling all SE Asian language experts and aficionados.
I'm trying to launch my next language adventure and trying to figure out which of these languages makes the most "sense" to study next. I do several international volunteer trips each year and next year there are spots in Thailand, the "hills" of Thailand where the majority are Burmese speaking, Cambodia and Vietnam. Obviously language study does not form the main motivation for my trips but I do like do pick up a little more than the basics. So of these languages I was wondering if people could comment on: 1. The relative difficulty of learning to speak at, say, a FSI/DLI Level 2 ability level. 2. The usefulness of each in their specific countries ( I have heard most Thais have an excellent command of English). 3. The usefulness outside of their respected countries (eg, I live in New England and there happens to be a large Cambodian immigrant population here). Any thoughts?? Thanks!! Edited by liddytime on 04 June 2010 at 6:08pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6801 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 2 of 26 04 June 2010 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have been to Thailand several times and started learning it a long time ago (not that I got too far). It's probably the most
widely spoken language and the most useful for business and tourism of the ones you list. I do several international volunteer trips each year and next year there are spots in Thailand, the "hills" of Thailand where the majority are Burmese speaking, Cambodia and Vietnam. Actually, I think the largest hill tribe group in Thailand is the Karen people. There are up to 14 million of them scattered throughout the mountains of SE Asia. Speaking of the Karen, their language is tonal and melodic, and very few foreigners get a chance to learn it. 1. Thai is not an easy language. Grammar and pronunciation are probably similar to Chinese in difficulty. Writing would be similar in difficulty to any other complex alphabet (like Arabic). So Level 3 perhaps. 2. Most Thais do not speak English outside of the limited tourist zones (where they speak broken English, German, Japanese, and everything else). Outside the tourist bubble, most people I met spoke not a single word of English, and I had to accomplish a great deal through gestures or an interpreter. There are, however, a lot of Chinese-Thais who are bilingual in Thai and some form of Chinese. 3. Usefulness of Thai outside Thailand will probably be limited to businesses dealing directly with Thailand. Thailand tends to be a country refugees flee to rather than from, so there aren't any major expat or refugee communities in the West. Edited by Captain Haddock on 04 June 2010 at 4:57pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6262 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 4 of 26 04 June 2010 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Ah, you are right. I found this from the organization site: "The hill-tribe people of Thailand are primarily Burmese migrants who inhabit the remote hilly forests of the Thai-Burma-Laos triangle border. They are composed of 6 different ethnic groups, each with its own language and culture, and recognizable by its colorful traditional dress. The Akha, Karen, Lahu, Lisu, Mien and Mon. The people are hard working and sincere people and believe in the fruits of honesty and a teachable mind." I guess I assumed that they spoke Burmese as they hail originally from Burma. I suppose, however, they likely wouldn't be too keen on continuing to speak the language of the country that ousted them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6262 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 5 of 26 05 June 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE]
The speaker figures are very misleading, both countries have an exceptionally high literacy rate, especially among developing countries, and this is because both standardised languages are used in all schools. As a result they are spoken by virtually everyone, so 60-65 million seems more reasonable for Thai and around 80-90 million for Vietnamese. The Thai dialects are verging on mutually intelligible but everyone can switch to standard Thai. I have travelled extensively in Thailand, especially in the North-East and North, and also in Laos, and I never had any problems using Thai. There is also a distinct but regular difference between North and South Vietnamese. Unless you are planning to visit the region or have family heritage, none of the languages are particularly useful globally or economically (maybe different for a Chinese because families of Chinese heritage dominate the two economies). The literary history is heavily influenced by Chinese and Indian traditions and despite the high literacy rate reading isn't a popular pastime. There is a bigger oral and musical heritage, but you will probably need to go to the region to experience it. If you do choose to learn one of the languages throughly, you will find it an amazing experience when you do travel. Very few foreigners make a real attempt at learning any of the languages so you will find that everyone wants to talk to you, have their photo taken with you, etc especially in rural areas. Hope that helps, Fat-tony[/QUOTE] I found this on an un-related post. Thanks Tony this is very useful information! 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6982 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 6 of 26 05 June 2010 at 2:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I will second the observation that Thai people outside of tourist areas do not speak English. It seems useful, but Thai has a reputation for being a very difficult language.
I don't know much about Khmer, because I haven't met many Cambodians, but I do know that Vietnamese and Cambodian are in the same language family, so learning one might help with the other to some degree. Of the two, Vietnamese is more widely spoken (according to Wikipedia), and the Vietnamese are famous for their expat communities all over the world (particularly in the U.S., UK, Australia, France, Germany, and Japan). This is also undoubtedly true of Cambodians, but I think it's true of Vietnamese to a much greater extent. Also, Vietnamese has an extremely high frequency of loanwords from Chinese, so it might serve as a gateway language if you ever became interested in Mandarin or another Chinese language. Finally, it uses a modified Roman alphabet, and the spelling is quite regular. So in terms of pure utility, I would recommend Vietnamese. Of course, utility is not the only consideration when choosing a foreign language. Unfortunately, I have heard Vietnamese described as the ugliest spoken language in the world on more than one occasion. (If you've never heard Vietnamese before, you can go to Simon & Schuster's website to hear the first Pimsleur lesson for free.) On the other hand, I've heard many people say that Thai is a beautiful-sounding language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| maaku Senior Member United States Joined 5607 days ago 359 posts - 562 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 26 05 June 2010 at 2:36am | IP Logged | ||
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To answer your question, I would recommend Khmer. As an international volunteer there is need in Cambodia, and as you said there are large refugee populations in the states as well. (Plus I have a bias: Cambodia is such a beautiful country, the people are so nice, and it has a rich and interesting cultural history. Siem Reap/Angkor Wat is one of my favorite destinations in the world.)
But I would also say the question is misguided. You can study Cambodian before you go, but while you are there I would use and learn whatever language is spoken natively by the people you are helping. As you said, they may not be too keen on practicing the others. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6801 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 8 of 26 05 June 2010 at 3:12am | IP Logged | ||
The mountainous region in northern Thailand and Burma is basically a no-man's-land, and the tribes there never integrated with the countries politicians suddenly claimed they belonged to. Even in Thailand, many or most hill tribespeople won't know much Thai. The Karen do use the Burmese alphabet for their language, though. I don't know much about the Mon or other groups. Edited by Captain Haddock on 05 June 2010 at 3:13am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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