g.polskov Triglot Newbie Canada Joined 5265 days ago 37 posts - 50 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Portuguese
| Message 65 of 80 10 July 2010 at 4:31pm | IP Logged |
tricoteuse wrote:
I usually just ignore the English. It's not my native anyway. |
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That is the thing. I felt the post was more towards those whose native language was English, but I feel it is even more frustrating when it is not.
I've seen occurences where as well I thought I was doing people I was hanging out with a favour to let them practice their English, but they were insulted when they found out I could speak better Spanish than their English and that I let them struggle.
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Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6483 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese
| Message 66 of 80 10 July 2010 at 5:47pm | IP Logged |
Some very good thoughts in this thread.
I often unconsciously switch back to English even when I know that people would
like to practise German. I'm often unaware of which language I'm speaking, because both
English and German are a huge part of my life.
So far, I always blamed it on habit, and being in the habit of speaking English
to a certain person probably does enter the equation when looking at which language
I'll speak when first seeing them in the morning. However, I also realized that
accent and the other person's perceived level of comfort play a big role.
For example, I should probably be in the habit of speaking Esperanto with Benny
(irishpolyglot), but I find it very easy to keep talking German because his accent is
neutral and he looks very comfortable speaking German. When he looks for a word, I tell
him and then continue in German. On the other hand, seeing other people looking for a
word I may tell them and then unconsciously continue in English. There are even people
with whom I've technically spent more hours speaking German, but the urge is still
there to switch because of their accent or their unease, even if their vocabulary is
much bigger than Benny's and I know they can express virtually anything in German.
Edited by Sprachprofi on 10 July 2010 at 5:48pm
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g.polskov Triglot Newbie Canada Joined 5265 days ago 37 posts - 50 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Portuguese
| Message 67 of 80 11 July 2010 at 5:02am | IP Logged |
Sprachprofi wrote:
Some very good thoughts in this thread.
I often unconsciously switch back to English even when I know that people would
like to practise German. I'm often unaware of which language I'm speaking, because both
English and German are a huge part of my life.
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I think you would agree with me you are not a typical sample though. Those who insist on English are not necessarily those with the best English in town, if you want my opinion...
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Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5295 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian
| Message 68 of 80 14 July 2010 at 1:26am | IP Logged |
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
I draw the following conclusion: No matter how well you speak the language, you risk being answered in English if people expect you to be a foreigner. Don't let it upset you. They mean well.:-) |
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It's difficult to generalize. Most people who answer back in English probably do mean well, and probably do think that they are being helpful. It is important to remember this.
But let's be frank: there are also some people out there who tend to address all foreigners in a rather arrogant and patronizing kind of way. Pointedly and insistently answering back in broken English is certainly a part of that.
In countries like France, Germany and Holland, there may sometimes be undercurrents of mild racism too - there is almost a kind of feeling that a person is not really "worthy" to speak the language unless he/she ticks the right boxes...
(Of course, such people are in a fairly small minority - but unfortunately they do exist.)
Edited by Romanist on 14 July 2010 at 1:29am
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Sandman Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5421 days ago 168 posts - 389 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Japanese
| Message 69 of 80 14 July 2010 at 3:48am | IP Logged |
robsolete wrote:
I think that there's also an element of how isolated your target language is.
Larger "world languages" tend to have a lot of dialects and accents, so native speakers are programmed from a young age to have a larger amount of "error tolerance" when it comes to listening to non-natives.
English is the prime example--most English natives don't bat an eye when hearing English spoken in dozens of different accents, and are used to "tuning in" to interpret what the speaker is trying to say.
When I made a brief attempt at learning Kannada, however, people would have minor heart attacks when they heard it come out of my mouth, and the smallest hint of accent would render some people utterly unable to understand me. The kids and teachers at my school eventually learned to "tune in" for my sake, but for many people I spoke to it may have been the first time they'd heard a "non-standard" pronunciation of Kannada, since the only non-native speakers they interact with are Telugu and Tamil speakers, which have similar phonemic inventories. Even Hindi speakers who move to Bangalore usually don't learn it.
So I could see Japanese and Korean speakers having trouble with foreigners to a higher degree than English speakers. It's less of a "mental block" and more just a lack of practice in hearing one's own language interpreted through a wide variety of accents. |
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That's a good point although I have a little twist on it. My gf is Japanese, and definitely speaks English with a Japanese accent. When she's in the Seattle area (where there are many Asians) she doesn't run into too many problems communicating with native English speakers and they seem to understand her fine. When she moved to a smaller town in Oregon to go to school, however, she noticed immediately that the folks there have a much harder time understanding her accent, almost to the point where she refuses to talk on the phone to locals there.
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administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7389 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map
| Message 70 of 80 14 July 2010 at 7:20pm | IP Logged |
I was in Rome on the week end, wearing a cap and large camera around the neck, you bet people in shops and restaurants tried their English on me. No problem, every time I would say with a large smile "Ah ma Lei parla veramente beeeeene l'inglese" - and almost every time all people in attendance burst out laughing and we continued in Italian.
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markchapman Diglot Groupie Taiwan tesolzone.com/ Joined 5485 days ago 44 posts - 55 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Portuguese
| Message 71 of 80 18 July 2010 at 7:26am | IP Logged |
Everyone who has ever learnt a language has probably had this problem. As has been said earlier, get your own
level of language to a good enough level so people can respect your ability in it enough to speak to you - i.e. get
better at the language you are studying than they are in English. Hire a tutor, or go and spend time in the
countryside.
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tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5365 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch
| Message 72 of 80 18 July 2010 at 7:50am | IP Logged |
Sometimes I have to wonder though if some speakers just don't perceive one's level to be high enough, based on stereotypes. For instance, my one university German professor is from America, and has a decent German accent, and he says that sometimes when visiting Germany, people answer back in English, to the point where he is speaking German to them while they are answering in English. Now this guy has several degrees in German, and has been studying it for 10+ years. He believes that his experiences stem from the fact that he is American, a country which is notorious for not learning other languages well.
On another note (maybe I mentioned it earlier), I remember getting into an argument with a Turkish bartender at a trainstation in Germany, because despite me speaking with him in German, he would always speak to me in English. I just refused to listen to him and told him I didn't understand English, until he finally started speaking in German then. I believe that when in Germany, speak as the Germans speak.
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