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Some L-R questions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| johntm93 Senior Member United States Joined 5137 days ago 587 posts - 746 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 9 of 13 22 June 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Being on summer vacation, I have plenty of time of L-R, I guess I better start :)
Glad I read this thread, pretty informative. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| john1000 Newbie United States Joined 5090 days ago 6 posts - 7 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Russian | Message 10 of 13 22 June 2010 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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So Volte, what would you say is the minimal time? 4 hrs?
I'm also wondering if reverse L-R would work. That is, if you listened in English and read the target lang. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6719 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 13 23 June 2010 at 1:40am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not Volte, but, why not try L-R for at least one hour, aiming for two? Even if L-R would be the best method out there, I don't know many who can devote three, four (ten?) hours a day (even for a short period) on one single subject.
As for reverse L-R, I don't see any major point in listening to your native language. From Listening-Reading Assimil (2008 02 March):
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| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5108 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 12 of 13 23 June 2010 at 2:51am | IP Logged | ||
I am not an expert for L-R, but would like to give my opinion, nevertheless. My advice would be: Don't be anxious about the right way. Let's say you have a book you like or even better love, you have read it in your native language, know what it is about, remember some phrases, the better you know it already, the better. Then there is this book in your target language, your are eager to read it, you really want to read it, no matter how hard this may be. And then you have this same book, read by a wonderful voice of a professional actor, it is a joy to listen to this guy or woman, ok, you don't really understand it yet, but it is fascinating, it is a recording of your favorite book in a new language you love, what is ahead of you is a fine time of reading and listening, of hard work and great satisfaction. Now, do whatever you like, as long as you like. Read one page of your native language, read it twice, in the ideal case you would know it by heart. Then go to the book in your new language, read the first page and try to map target and native language. Is there some success? Have you understood quite a big part of it? Wow, then you should have a proud and cozy feeling, this is the real thing, isn't it? What now? well, whatever, take your target language and mark the words you did not understand. Hole sentences could not be mapped? Well, most likely a grammar problem, mark them. Look up the words now and write their meaning into the target text, or don't do it, because you hope, you'll learn these words by context, when you read on. (ok, I would look them up, but it's your fun session, so do what you enjoy). Reread the sentences that did not make sense, maybe several times, slowly, fast, very fast, extremely slowly - Does not work? A solution is a little harder, If you knew what is wrong with your understanding and you could look this up in your grammar, well - then you probably would understand the sentence, too; So if there is nobody there you can ask, just hope that there will be similar constructions and you will get used to it and finally understand it. (You have not understood anything in your target text, although you knew your native text really well? In this case you don't know enough words, so better get a minimal vocabulary and learn the 1000/2000/3000 words, before doing such a hard thing as reading literature. And ok, find a grammar somewhere, maybe read the article in wikipedia about your target language's grammar, or get a slim book, just enough not to be shocked. Learn what is written there. Some grammar and some words are really good for learning a language, ok, this is boring, and some work, that's why many people prefer to switch on their radio and go to bed, in the hope that their subconsciousness will do the work. (I would not do this, but hey - it's your life ;-) ) Oops, you have forgotten the audio book, this gives you tremendous new possibilities. You can read a page in your new favorite language? Great, time to get some frustration, you won't understand the beginning of your audio book, these xxx-speaking people talk really very fast, and you have the impression that the actor who did the recording was under time pressure and had to get home,urgently. But the voice is lovely, impressive, it is such a beautiful language, this xxx, and you read your native language while listening, 10 times, if necessary. This does not help, ok, you read your target language while listening, 10 times should do for a start. Hm, it is not really so fast, this recording, actually it is quite the same speed you would read it, too, in your native language. You should really have got it right from the start, it is so easy! Or, maybe it does not work, this listening? Well, no problem, maybe when you have reached page 200 of your loved masterpiece of literature things may come more natural, so you don't get yourself under pressure, just go on and are glad that you have not learned your target language in just one day. You have read 20 pages, reading sucks, you want to listen to the audio only, you are good enough for this. You sit back, switch on the recording, and listen. Cool, good sound, really exotic. Great fun. Unfortunately it is a little harder to understand when you don't know before what he will say. Much harder. Actually you are completely lost. Is the murderer still alive? What's this, the policeman is a lesbian monk desperately seeking for a solution to the world formula? Not really what you thought this novel was about. Maybe you should not skip the reading, not yet, maybe next week. Next week, and this listening is boring, anyway. You read on. Only target this time, it is a page turner, and you do exactly this: You leaf through the book, your speed is incredible, and you have great fun. Most xxx-people can't read as fast as you can. You are really fast, and it is fun. 20 pages later you notice that you don't know what you are reading, was there ever a monk in this book? A murder? You have no idea. You go to the waste-paper-basket, maybe it was not such a good idea to throw away your native text, and the cover was so lovely ... There are dialogs in your book? Great, become an actor, play your part in the dialog, learn some short phrases by heart. Shadow the audio by talking along with it, simultaneously, as long as you like. Do it after you have read it, do it before you have read it, do it, while you read it (ahm, is this still shadowing? oh no, you forgot that you have to walk around for shadowing, but maybe you find out, that the best you can do while reading and talking along to a text you listen to is jumping, I would not do it, but it is your decision. But some workout can never be a bad thing, so you have certainly not wasted your time ...) Read your target book aloud, you can do it better than this strange actor with his unnatural accent. Or maybe his accent is not so bad, and you try to mimic him as exactly as you can. You read entire chapters, it is fun, isn't it, or you read sentence by sentence, and try to repeat it by heart, if it works, fine, if not, ok, this will come, you have time. You learn some words and some grammar, between two sessions, it is real fun to see the words you have just learnt in your favorite text. And the grammar, these sentences you never understood in the beginning: This writer uses participles where you would use sentences, or it is the other way round, you have a better grammar now, and after you found this exciting chapter about participles these beasts cannot irritate you any longer, it's child's play, well, most of the time. Now if someone comes and tells you that what you do, for an hour a day, is not L-R, and you should do it for at least 10 hours a day: So be it, but there is zero chance that what you do is not effective. (Sorry for my English, and of course I do love all these different methods and have learned a lot while reading this forum. But it is just my impression that some people get distracted from their goal and overwhelmed by the thinking about methods: Just for these this should be a little encouragement) 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6249 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 13 of 13 23 June 2010 at 10:54am | IP Logged | ||
First: lingoleng is entirely correct. Secondly: I believe I have seen 2 hours (for closely related/transparent languages) floated as a plausible minimum. Reverse L-R has been proposed. It has a number of large downsides - audio in your target language helps with accent, prosody, etc, text does not. Edited by Volte on 23 June 2010 at 10:55am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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