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German Vocabulary | ||
Tags: Vocabulary learning | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| zekecoma Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5279 days ago 561 posts - 655 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 1 of 17 16 June 2010 at 4:10am | IP Logged | ||
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I recently started being able to write and speak simple sentences, nothing complex yet.
But the problem is I cannot recall a lot from my memory. I have an application for helping with my vocabulary, genders, flash, etc. But, I just cannot recall the bloody genders for the words except for a few words. I say about 20 to 30 out of my 71 word list. Also, I know the English words for the German words. But sometimes not so vice versa. It seems the only type I can memorise the words is when I doing the studying but afterwards, like a few hours later I cannot recall them. I keep findings myself back to my word list to get the words I need. I honestly don't know what I could be doing wrong. Edited by zekecoma on 16 June 2010 at 4:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| wraith720 Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5543 days ago 13 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 17 16 June 2010 at 7:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I think I'll wait for the more experience language learners to give advice, but what I'd say is you just need to practice actually using the words. I can commiserate with you - I know genders in German are crazy annoying and vocab is hard to remember in general. But when you start hearing the words used (and using them yourself) - kind of going beyond just the flashcard programs - things start to sound natural and stick in your memory.
A specific way to do this might be to repeat this words in context in your head. So maybe find (or write yourself) several meaningful sentences using the words, and repeat those to yourself. Also look for ways you can hear those words actually being used by others, too. Hope that helps somewhat and good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| zekecoma Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5279 days ago 561 posts - 655 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 3 of 17 16 June 2010 at 8:25am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, I would write sentences but right now I haven't really gotten to the area of word
order and the little simple verbs got most down but still troubling with a few, so writing sentences is a little too much but I can do some. the 3 words that are giving me a really tough time because I always mix them up is 1. der Schinken 2. das Rinfleisch 3. das Schweinefleisch Most of the time I can actually guess by the ending for most feminine, still having a tough time with the masculine words. And also on the neuter. I still haven't figured out why Gender matters so much that Germans back then didn't drop the gender like Swiss German did and I think they dropped the cases to it also. Well about the sentences, most of my German friends (native Germans speakers). They can understand what I'm saying when I do write sentences but it's very broken xD. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5631 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 4 of 17 16 June 2010 at 10:26am | IP Logged | ||
I believe that should be das Rindfleisch, but that's probably just a typo. As a fellow German learner I have gone through something similar. In the beginning I tried to systematically memorize words and genders via SRS but ended up with so many words that I ended up spending too much time on it and less time actually learning the language. I have since given up that strategy and figured my time is better spent with native input. Over time I find that the gender of the common words tend to get passively absorbed. Perhaps that isn't the most efficient way, but it certainly is a lot less painful. I would then gently suggest that once you have memorized a decent base of words, to not worry excessively about memorizing genders intensively. Doing so might risk den Wald vor lauter Bäumen nicht sehen, if you will. Edited by egill on 16 June 2010 at 10:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5701 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 5 of 17 16 June 2010 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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This will be a long post. My apologies in advance. I have already written this out once and it got deleted.
As you have only just begun learning German, it may be that you have not encountered any of the rules for the gender of German nouns as of yet. I will write what I know here, as well as rules for plural forms which are also pretty annoying in German. Firstly, two of the nouns you mentioned that you have trouble with are what the grammar books seem to call compound nouns. There is a rule to determine the gender of compound nouns in German. Das Rindfleisch and Das Schweinefleisch are made up of two nouns each. Das Rind (cow, bull) + das Fleisch = das Rindfleisch Die Schweine (plural of das Schwein, a pig) + das Fleisch = das Schweinefleisch The rule is that when you have a compound noun, the gender of that noun is determined by the last noun in the new word. More examples: Die Prüfung + die Zeit (exam + time) = die Prüfungszeit – exam period Das Feuer + der Stein (fire + stone) = der Feuerstein (which means flint) Die Kinder (plural of das Kind, a child) + das Bett = das Kinderbett (a child’s bed or a cot) Sorry about the second slightly useless second example – I am having trouble thinking of relatively useful words. There are also rules for genders and plurals in German. I will deal with them together. Masculine nouns All days of the week, months of the year and compass points are all masculine without exception. All precipitation seems to be masculine – der Schnee (snow), der Regen (rain) and der Nebel (fog) All nouns in –ismus are masculine – der Kommunismus, der Kapitalismus, der Seximus Words referring to alcoholic drinks are masculine – der Wein, der Wodka, der Sherry, der Alkohol –the exception is das Bier. Names of cars and trains are masculine – der Porsche, der VW, der Mercedes. Motorbikes and aircraft are feminine, though. Feminine nouns All nouns ending in the suffixes –heit, -keit, -schaft, -tät are feminine. They also all form their plurals in –en, with no exceptions. There are also the suffixes –ei and –ie which as far as I know are also always feminine, but I am not 100% on that so I would not include it as a rule... although I would say it is safe to assume that the vast majority of these are feminine. Their plurals all end in –n, too. Of that much, I am certain. There is also the suffix –ung. Which is feminine in about 95% of cases. Over the course of my 10 years of German I have found that these are not always feminine, though. Der Sprung – a jump, and all of its compounds, are masculine. Der Vorsprung, der Ursprung, der Eisprung are all masculine – Vorsprung means “lead, advance, development“, as in Audi’s trademark „Vorsprung durch Technik“ – “Progress through technology” or something similar. Der Ursprung means “the origin” and “der Eisprung” means “ovulation”. Der Schwung means a swing or momentum, something along the movement idea. Der Aufschwung means an upturn. And these are the only exceptions I have ever encountered – it is safe to assume that other nouns in –ung are feminine. I once read on a website somewhere that all words in –ung are feminine, believing it, and went to do my German final exam at the end of school before going off to university – I was talking about the concept of development and used the word Vorsprung, believing it was a feminine noun all the way through the paper – all the marks I lost during that exams were because of that. Names of most aircraft and motorbikes are feminine – die BMW, die Titanic. Most words in –ik are feminine – there are however a few exceptions. All however form their plurals in –en. The vast majority of nouns ending in –e are feminine in German. It is safe to assume that a noun in –e is feminine and then just learn the exceptions when you meet them. Common EXCEPTIONS are – Das Interesse (an interest), das Ende (an end) and therefore das Wochenende (the weekend). There are also a fair few masculine nouns which refer to male human beings which end in –e. A lot of them are nationalities. Der Ire (an Irishman), der Deutsche (a German man – die Deutsche would be a German woman), der Affe (a monkey), der Junge (a boy) der Franzose (the Frenchman) and some others. It is safe to say that most if not all nouns which end in –e form their plurals in –n, whatever gender they are. Die Schule (n) – school Das Interesse (n) – interest Das Wochenende (n) – weekends. Die Landkarte (n) – a map (das Land, a country, + die Karte, a card) Die Katze (n) – a cat Neuter nouns All nouns in –chen and –lein are neuter, even if they refer to humans. They never change in the plural. There are other “rules”, but to me a rule is something which has no exceptions – because to me that is the definition. I’d call them more guidelines... but I won’t write them here as there is probably enough here already and these “guidelines” probably are not worth the hassle learning anyway. I hope that this has helped somehow. Jack 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Frieza Triglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5288 days ago 102 posts - 137 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC2, French Studies: German | Message 6 of 17 16 June 2010 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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I seem to have a similar problem memorizing German vocabulary. A lot of it just doesn't stick, the first time around at least. I think it's because the sounds and letters most commonly used in German are just so different from the ones I'm used to.
Somehow I sometimes immediately pick up really long and difficult words like 'selbstverständlich' though. With genders, I'm far from perfect but I seem to get it right about 80% of the times. The termination rules are indeed helpful although most of them come with exceptions. The German grammar Langenscheidt Deutsch Grammatik - kurz und schmerzlos does a good job explaining the basics of these rules. Other words just have to be memorised with the corresponding gender. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Slovak_anglo Diglot Groupie United States facebook.com/deliver Joined 5280 days ago 87 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Italian, Slovak | Message 7 of 17 16 June 2010 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is some gender help
Masculine(der)- 1)Nouns that refer to males 2)Many nouns that end in -er, -en, -el: der Lehrer, der Wagen, der Mantel 3)Days of the week, months, and seasons: der Montag, der Januar, der Herbst 4)Foreign words with the accent on the last syllable: der Soldat, der Elefant 5)Nouns formed from an infinitive minus the -en ending: der Besuch, der Lohn 6)Many nouns that form their plural by (umlaut) + e: der Brief(die Briefe), der Satz(die Sätze) 7) Nouns that end in -ich, -ig, -ismus, -ist, -ling, and -us: der Teppich, der Käffig, der Kommunismus, der Kapitalist, der Lehrling, der Rythmus Feminine(die)- 1) Nouns that refer to females: die Mutter, die Frau 2) Names of numerals: die Eins, die Hundert 3) Names of many rivers: die Elbe, die Mosel 4) Many nouns ending in -e: die Lampe, die Ernte 5) Nouns ending in -in that identify females: die Lehererin, die Austauschstudentin 6) Many nouns ending in -a: die Kamera, die Pizza 7) Many nouns that form their plural by -(e)n: die Tante(die Tanten) die Zeitschrift(die Zeitschriften) 8) Nouns that end in -ei, -heit, -keit, -ie, -ik, -nz, -schaft, -ion, tät, -ung, and -ur Neuter(das)- 1) Diminutive nouns that end in -chen or -lein: das Mädchen, das Röslein 2) Nouns formed from an infinitive: das Einkommen, das Singen 3) Most nouns that end in -nis: das Bekenntis, das Gedächtnis 4) Many nouns with the prefix Ge-: das Gemälde, das Gelächter 5) Nouns that refer to metals: das Gold, das Silber 6) Nouns that end in -ment: das Regiment, das Experiment 7) Most nouns that form ther plural by (umlaut)+ -er: das Haus(die Häuser), das Kind(die Kinder) 8) Nouns that end in -tel, -tum, and -um: das Viertel, das Königtum, das Gymnasium Hopefully this will help you with your gender trouble. S_A Edited by Fasulye on 18 June 2010 at 7:59am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| wraith720 Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5543 days ago 13 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Mandarin | Message 8 of 17 16 June 2010 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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I like other peoples' advice about gender rules and such; that can really help sometimes.
But something else I thought of is that maybe, since it sounds like you're more of a beginner, you should be studying more simple, useful vocabulary instead of such specific nouns like "Rindfleisch." The problem is, more likely than not, you will hardly be using or hearing that word. That makes it hard for it stick in your memory. I've been studying German for 3+ years, and I never had "Rindfleisch" or "Schinken" in one of my vocab lists. I learned them later on by reading or hearing them in context. But let's say you study some common prepositions or very common nouns, for example. Those words you will see a lot, and once you get basic sentence structure and grammar down, those are some of the words you will be using. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that at first you shouldn't let yourself be overwhelmed by the sheer number of words in a foreign language (or their genders). Just focus on getting grammar and structure down, along with a good number of basic, sentence building words. Once you have those, you can start expanding your vocabulary with some everyday words, and eventually more advanced, specific vocab. Then you also have a basis of grammar and sentence building that you can use to practice those words. In language learning, it doesn't suffice just to learn using flashcards, either. If anybody wants to speak fluently, you have to be able to recall the words into memory instantly. That's what you get through practicing and hearing the words and really ingraining them in your memory (which can happen after you've introduced them with flashcards). I hope that made sense more or less. I tend to babble sometimes =P 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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