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Is Arabic so difficult or is the methods? | ||
Tags: Difficulty | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| michi Nonaglot Newbie Austria Joined 5110 days ago 33 posts - 57 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, German, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese Studies: Turkish, Arabic (Written), Serbo-Croatian, Indonesian, Japanese | Message 1 of 20 19 June 2010 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Next year I want to travel to Syria, so just yesterday I have started to learn Arabic again. It is not the first time. For two year I have studied Arabic at the University of Vienna and for one month I attended a language course in Cairo. However I wonder why I still understand so little of the language. Recently I heard a preacher in a mosque and I simply could not understand a word of what he said. It is a bit frustrating, because I think I am rather good at learning languages. Although I have studied languages like Swedish, Russian or Indonesian less than Arabic, I was able to understand and speak it in the corresponding countries.
To a great deal I think it was due to the methods that were used at the University of Vienna. The only thing we learned was grammar and translating. We never spoke the language or had to formulate phrases and also the professor spoke only German with us. Even the grammatical expressions we learned in German only. However when I came to Cairo because of my good knowledge of the grammar I did the test quite well and was put into level 4. And there I sat in the classroom with a professor who talked only Arabic and asked what I had done last weekend. For the first time in my life I had to speak Arabic. In the end the course in Cairo was quite good and I learned a lot. In the meantime it is eight years ago. I am curious to know about your experiences with learning Arabic. Was it taught in such a out-dated way or is this just the case in the Arabic department of the University of Vienna? For the other languages I have learned there modern active methods were used. Or is the main reason for my frustrating experiences the fact that Arabic is so difficult to learn. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shahvlad Newbie Belgium Joined 5118 days ago 19 posts - 38 votes | Message 2 of 20 19 June 2010 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've heard this a great many times. People start learning Arabic hoping to get around in the Arabic world only to be puzzled by the fact that they don't understand a word of what the natives are saying. There appears to be this attitude among Arabs that regional varieties of Arabic are corruptions of the original and "holy" Arabic found in the Qur'an, hence not worth much attention. Academics seem to have adopted that approach and that is why they will generally teach you Modern Standard Arabic and only later on they may introduce you to a dialect, usually Egyptian. Some claim that students would be better off if they did it the other way around and began by teaching students a dialect instead. I've read an interesting paper on that once, which you can find here.
Dialects are said to be easier but in my experience it doesn't make much of a difference - it's all Greek to me (or Chinese as we Dutch-speakers would say, and is probably more accurate a comparison in terms of difficulty!). Stories like yours are among the reasons that lead me to abandon the idea of studying Arabic altogether. When I learn a language I don't want to have to learn what I consider to be an antiquated language and twenty modern-day varieties on top of that, it's that simple. I think the Arabs seriously need to reform their language policy, but I fear that will not be happening any time soon. In the meantime, I would suggest that you decide what you want to get out of learning Arabic. Do you want to be able to read or listen to Arabic media and religious texts and sermons, or is your real goal to be able to communicate with the natives? If the latter applies, ask yourself which of the Arab countries or regions you prefer and are most likely to spend time in. Then, study that variety and forget about MSA - at least, for the time being. You can always learn it later on. Just my thoughts on the issue. Hope it's of use to you. Good luck with your studies. Edited by shahvlad on 19 June 2010 at 3:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| michi Nonaglot Newbie Austria Joined 5110 days ago 33 posts - 57 votes Speaks: Dutch*, German, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese Studies: Turkish, Arabic (Written), Serbo-Croatian, Indonesian, Japanese | Message 3 of 20 19 June 2010 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||
I forgot to write that both in Vienna and Cairo I have learned not only MSA but also the Egyptian dialect. Unfortunately it didn't make an enormous difference. I could make simple conversations in shops or with taxidrivers, but with more educated Egyptians and even my teachers outside the classroom I spoke English. In general when I want to learn a language I would never do that. With regard to Russian - the most difficult language after Arabic that I have learned - I always spoke Russian even if I knew that people were able to speak English. But in Arabic it simply wasn't possible. I tried to watch the Egyptian television but I understood so little that while I was in Cairo I mostly watched the French ARTE television channel. My goal to learn Arabic is more or lesse the same as with other languages. I want to be able to read newspapers and books, listen to the radio and watch television and movies, but also talk to the people in as many Arabic countries as possible. I chose Egyptian Arabic because it is considered to be the most important dialect and it was only the only one that was offered at the university of Vienna. However I don't intend to live in Egypt or any other Arabic country. I am not a muslim and I am not that interested in the quran, but I would like to be able to read in Arabic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sozo_2020 Diglot Newbie Egypt Joined 5200 days ago 22 posts - 23 votes Speaks: Arabic (Egyptian)*, English Studies: German, Korean | Message 4 of 20 20 June 2010 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | ||
I think that you shouldn't start with msa, you'll be so confused about it.In Arabic you can't study part by part... you have to take it all at once I mean voc.&grm.&dic. This way you'll do better in less time.Sure it'll be harder but it'll be alot easier if you could find someone to talk to in arabic,and keep listening to the radio and watching television and movies even if you don't understand it'll help alot with your accent. P.S. you don't have to be a muslim to live in Arabic country>>>>> 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cetacea Bilingual Tetraglot Groupie United States booh.com Joined 5133 days ago 80 posts - 163 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Arabic (Yemeni), Arabic (Written) Studies: French | Message 5 of 20 20 June 2010 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I actually have a very different take on the issue of MSA and spoken Arabic. Take a look at this post I wrote a little while ago.
I learned both MSA and a dialect to an advanced level in an Arab country, so my experience might be a bit different, but I have observed hundreds Arabic students, most of them third-year university students, who came to Yemen to study Arabic, some for a summer and some for a whole year. Most students who stayed for three months or longer learned Yemeni dialect with various degree of success even though they never studied it in class. You are obviously talented in languages, so there is no reason why you can’t expect yourself to be fluent if you stay in Syria for three months or more. Don’t be frustrated about your inability to speak. You will pick that up quickly, usually in a month or two if you are good with languages, three – five months if you are an average student. A good amount of immersion time to aim for is three months. Anything short of that isn’t going to get you over the hurdle. By the way, Yemen used to be and still is a great place to learn Arabic because most of the locals can’t speak English, but I can no longer recommend it due to the deteriorating security situation. Syria seems to be the next best choice. Nowadays Syrian soaps and Turkish TV series dubbed in Syrian dialect have taken over the Egyptian variety, so you will be universally understood if you speak a mixture of Syrian dialect and MSA. You made the right choice by starting out with MSA in your home country. Do not see dialects as different languages, rather subsets of MSA. By studying MSA, you are building a solid foundation and seeing the “big picture”. Dialects will come easily once you are in an immersion environment. There is no shame in speaking MSA if that’s all you know. Yes, some Arabs will snicker at you, but that’s more of them feeling inadequate themselves. Be confident and pushy, force them to speak MSA with you instead of switching to English. If they still laugh at you, just tell them “Standard Arabic is the language of the Quran, how come I know it you don’t?” That usually shuts them up and makes them change their attitude. On my first trip to the market after only four hours of Arabic classes, I said to the vegetable seller “Ureedu xxx”. He laughed at me. I didn’t care, the important thing was that he UNDERSTOOD me and sold me what I wanted. After a few days, I went back, and the same guy asked me “matha tureedeena?” It was my turn to laugh at him. By then I already learned how to say “I want” in Yemeni dialect. Yemenis in general are kind-hearted and eager to help. I hope your experience in Syria will be as pleasant as mine in Yemen. Whatever you do, DON NOT give up Arabic just because you can’t speak it well or can’t understand TV programs yet. 99% of university students can’t communicate with Arabs in daily life situations when they first come to an Arab country, so it doesn’t mean your university is any worse than others. Do not dismiss all the grammar and vocabulary you learned at school, they will become your foundation when you learn a dialect in the country where it is spoken. 14 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ANK47 Triglot Senior Member United States thearabicstudent.blo Joined 6906 days ago 188 posts - 259 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (classical) | Message 6 of 20 20 June 2010 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | ||
Exactly this. Arabs tend to underestimate the differences between the dialects and MSA. For example, it's like if standard English was only spoken on the news but everyone spoke Ebonics in their every day life. No one would want to teach Ebonics to language students, but in order to understand people you have to know it. That's how the Arabic dialects are viewed by many in the Arabic world. Arabic really is a difficult language though. The sounds are nearly impossible for non native speakers to get right, plus little to no vocab in the 9 languages that you know is going to help you with Arabic vocab. I think Arabic really has to become part of your life in order for you to learn it as it requires so much more of a time commitment than most other languages. If you're going to spend time in Syria that will help you a lot. Being in an Arabic speaking country is really the best way to learn. The best advice I can give you is not to stress or get upset when you don't understand something. I just trust my brain to learn and it does. If you check out my blog there are some Levantine Arabic lessons that should help get you acquainted with the accent and dialect that you'll be hearing in Syria. I wish you good luck in learning Arabic. It's a hard language but not at all impossible for a person who already knows 9 languages. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| michi Nonaglot Newbie Austria Joined 5110 days ago 33 posts - 57 votes Speaks: Dutch*, German, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese Studies: Turkish, Arabic (Written), Serbo-Croatian, Indonesian, Japanese | Message 7 of 20 21 June 2010 at 9:16am | IP Logged | ||
I have considered to attend a language course in Sana'a in the past and even bought a travel guide for Yemen. However I abandoned the idea just because of the security situation. Not that I am so scared, but my family would be horrified by the idea of me traveling to Yemen. Although I liked the language school in Cairo, I don't to go there again because I was scared to death by the traffic. I lived next to an extremely busy boulevard that I had to cross through the running traffic. Actually there were traffic lights they were always switched off and I was glad everytime I had reached the other side alive. I have heard that every year 5.000 people are killed by the traffic in Cairo alone, and I have no reason to doubt it. I was hit but not hurt once by a car that drove backwards. I do hope the situation in Damascus is much better. I am very interested in Syria, but I am afraid I can stay for one month only. I hope this will bring me further. I should do something about my pronounciation of the consonants. Although I do think I have a gift for languages, I can't learn just by listening. I have to learn the grammar well and I need someone to correct my pronounciation. When I learned Russian in the beginning my consonants were a catastrophe - it all sounded the same to me. After I attended a special course with orthoepic exercises however my pronounciation became quite well. Thanks for your reactions so far! Still I would like to know more about the way Arabic is thought in other parts of the world. It is also in the outdated manner like in Vienna, that you don't speak it at all but just learn grammar? Edited by michi on 21 June 2010 at 9:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6081 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 8 of 20 21 June 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I finished FSI Saudi Arabic, and I can make out something of what Egyptian Arabs are saying to each other even though it is a different dialect. I do have some exposure to Egyptian Arabic itself, though. I have little knowledge of MSA.
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