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Confusing L and N? | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5176 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 1 of 8 14 July 2010 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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My Cantonese speaking friend frequently confuses L and N, making her sometimes difficult to understand.
I do believe this is typical of Cantonese, but I wanted to know a) if others have noticed the same mistake, and b) if this also happens with speakers of other languages. Edited by Arekkusu on 14 July 2010 at 6:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5491 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 2 of 8 14 July 2010 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Merging of /n/ to /l/ (initially, never word finally) is a hallmark of Hong Kong
Cantonese. Many people disparage it as one of the so called "lazy sounds" (懶音), though it far from changes the fact that the change has been occurring for over a hundred years and people simply speak like that now. Of course, one's native phonology can easily bleed into an L2. Other prominent changes include loss of /ŋ/ initial and merging of /kʷ/,/kʷʰ/ to /k/,/kʰ/. Edited by egill on 14 July 2010 at 9:58pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5176 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 8 14 July 2010 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, I forgot to say "word-initially", you're right! Thanks for the additional info!
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| indiana83 Groupie United States ipracticecanto.wordp Joined 5285 days ago 92 posts - 121 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Cantonese, Italian | Message 4 of 8 15 July 2010 at 2:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I learned that a lot of Cantonese syllables that should begin with an "n", are really pronounced with the tongue being positioned somewhere between where it would be for a pure "n" and a pure "l".
And one of our first lessons in Cantonese was that many native speakers pronounce words which should start with an "n" with an "l" instead. Like pronouncing the word "you" - 你 - as lei5 instead of nei5. I even ran into a few Hong Kongers who would correct me when I said nei5 instead of lei5. One was even convinced - and I did try to argue with him - that he had never heard a native speaker who pronounces this and other words with initial "n". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Asiafeverr Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6137 days ago 346 posts - 431 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, German | Message 5 of 8 16 July 2010 at 9:46am | IP Logged | ||
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I know many native speakers that do not even know they mispronounce words that should
start with an N when speaking their own language. This is not limited to Hong Kong; many Cantonese speakers in mainland China do the same mistake. Edited by Asiafeverr on 16 July 2010 at 9:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5472 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 6 of 8 16 July 2010 at 10:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Genuine question: Given that speakers, many from the same area, err when using their L1,
when does this characteristic become a dialect marker and not a mispronunciation? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5176 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 8 16 July 2010 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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As a rule, native speakers do not err when pronouncing their L1. L and N are
interchangeable in Cantonese, that's all. The idea that it's should be an L is most likely reinforced by the fact that it's usually an L in Mandarin. If they could control the difference between L and N, it wouldn't be a problem in English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6234 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 8 of 8 16 July 2010 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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