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I think SRS’ing may not be for me? | ||
Tags: Spaced Repetition (SRS) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| TonyChi Newbie United States Joined 5039 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 1 of 16 18 July 2010 at 10:03am | IP Logged | ||
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I am having quite a bit of difficulties with SRS'ing. I am using Mnemosyne with "1kyu Vocabulary List" and with that being said, these are my methods for studying Japanese. I am listening to Japanese audio most of my day, doing my reps on Mnemosyne, and studying from my Japanese book with writing "output", speaking "output" and reading "input". My goals are to learn the writing (kanjis), speaking and reading to a native-like fluency. I would like to drop the Japanese book altogether, because I want to avoid learning bad habits early on and focus on SRS'ing and immersing myself into Japanese.
Though I find that I am not able to retain most of the kanjis, kana spelling and the meaning from my studies sessions with SRS, and it feels more like frustration then progress. Though if I study from my book, I am able to remember whole phrases with kanjis using writing, speaking, and seeing, though in the last 72 hours, I have been only to remember about one or two words from my SRS'ing sessions. I feel if I output "writing the" vocabs from my SRS'ing during the sessions this will increase my memory of the words, though won't this create bad habits within the future? I have just picked up Japanese again, but I am still at the beginning stages just pass the whole kana chart with some kanji and vocabs. I really believe in immersing in the target language and SRS'ing while waiting for the output to come natural and unforced is the ticket. Though I could use some advice, should I add output to my SRS'ing sessions despite creating bad habits? Should I continue studying the classic way of the pencil and the book with longer studying sessions? Perhaps a new deck could help? If I make my own deck, I might include incorrect spellings or meanings. The input method: http://www.antimoon.com/how/input-intro.htm 1kyu Vocabulary List: http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/node/236 Thanks for reading and any future advice or insight! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Kazen Diglot Groupie Japan japanese-me.com Joined 5124 days ago 96 posts - 133 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 2 of 16 18 July 2010 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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One way to look at it is that SRS isn't for learning, per ce, but for reviewing. So first go through your book, study whatever non-SRS way works for you, and then enter the information into Mnemosyne/Anki. That way you'll be periodically reminded about things you've already learned, keeping them fresh and at the front of your mind.
I don't know if you're aware but 1 kyuu is the hardest level of the JLPT, so you've jumped right in the deep end! -_^ The most basic level is N5 on the newly revamped test or 4 on the old test. Maybe you'd want to start there and work your way up? Good luck with your studies! Japanese can be very intimidating and challenging to start but becomes very rewarding with time. I hope you find a study method that works for you! ^_^ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5807 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 3 of 16 18 July 2010 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you're SRSing a preformed word list, then many of those words are likely to have no relevance to anything else you're doing. Your brain probably doesn't see the point in this, so resists.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ocius Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5386 days ago 48 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German, Ancient Greek Studies: French, Latin, Sanskrit | Message 4 of 16 18 July 2010 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me, the issue with inputting preformed vocab lists in SRS is due in part to resistance to learning the words due
to lack of context, but primarily due to the poor setup SRS software like Mnemosyne and Anki have in place for the initial "learning phase." i.e. The very first time you come across a word, particularly without a real context, you're not going retain it for 10 hours unless it has a particularly memorable attribute to it (it sounds funny, reminds you of the base language definition, etc.). SRS algorithms are not designed to get past the short-term memorization hurdle, but rather to avoid long-term forgetting. In the short term (i.e. the first 30 minutes to an hour after seeing the word), you're probably going to need to use a different review technique to at least bump the word up to the point where it'll last 'til the first Anki/Mnemonsyne interval. Whether this is via finding a meaningful context for the word or simply through rote memorization is up to you. Edited by Ocius on 18 July 2010 at 12:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TonyChi Newbie United States Joined 5039 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 16 18 July 2010 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello Kazen,
Thank you for the quick reply. He he, I wasn't aware that 1 kyuu was the hardest level of JLPT, though thanks for the tip on the N5 revamp of the test. I may even know some of the kanjis already! I have already started researching the N5 verion of JLPT deck now. Cainntear & Ocius, Thank you for the insightful information. As it looks like I was heading in the wrong direction before, I will definitely restylize my current study habits with the SRS application. I was working on my own deck earlier and I am bring it back out because of the given information. Thanks everyone for setting me back on the right path! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5579 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 6 of 16 18 July 2010 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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You don't have to use an SRS. I didn't. And I learned Japanese just fine.
I prefer "bookstore" over SRS software. "Bookstore" provides a number of ways to organize and format the language, but I prefer to use a classic feature called "novel." "Novel" doesn't support isolated kanji but it comes with plenty of example sentences and lots of repetition, plus it's mobile. The spacing algorithm can be sporadic but I still find I remember the words I need. "Bookstore" is not a free program, but I've heard certain environments support a comparable open source project called "library," though I've heard "library" is apt to crash when using the in-program "note" tool. Anki, Memnosyne, and most other SRS systems involve reading - be it single words, kanji, or full sentences - with the goal of memorizing vocabulary and grammatical patterns. I think it is better to read more and more varied Japanese with more and fuller context than to repeat the same material piecemeal. Language is repetitive by nature - we don't need an SRS - and the benefits of a natural reading experience outweigh the downsides of irregular exposure. How should you organize decks for Anki or other programs? I don't use a software program, but I fulfill the same goals through books. Should you have words? Sentences? I prefer paragraphs and pages. Should you have multiple sentences per word? That is a non-issue with books. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| johntm93 Senior Member United States Joined 5123 days ago 587 posts - 746 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 7 of 16 19 July 2010 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
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If it's not working, change how you use it. If it's still not working, stop using it and look for another way.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5777 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 8 of 16 19 July 2010 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
What makes you think that people working with SRS do not read novels? And don't tell me you haven't heard of book reading features like quoting, bookmarking, underscoring, re- reading and memorisation of certain passages from your favourite books. SRS can definitely help with this kind of repetition. Anyway, if you prefer to never read the same paragraph twice, it's totally up to you. No one has ever said that SRS is a requirement, it's just that some people like it because they think it's more effective, fun or both. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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