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French: Compounds with être | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Kary Groupie Canada Joined 5937 days ago 85 posts - 113 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French, Spanish, German | Message 1 of 10 26 August 2010 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Just want to verify my understanding before memorizing potential errors. When (and only when) être is used to form one of the compound tenses (e.g. passé composé), the past participle agrees in number and gender with the subject. So:
je suis allé(e) tu es allé(e) il est allé elle est allée nous sommes allé(e)s vous êtes allé(e)(s) ils sont allés elles sont allées Is this correct? That is, je, tu and nous vary based on gender, vous varies based on gender and number (whether it is plural or formal singular). What about "on"? Depending on context, it could be masculine or feminine, singular or plural. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5169 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 2 of 10 26 August 2010 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You are correct.
"On" is either masc. sing., or else it can be plural if it has the meaning of "nous". I don't recall ever seeing "on est allées" fem. plur., but I suppose it's possible. As for your first comment, --------- When (and only when) être is used to form one of the compound tenses (e.g. passé composé), the past participle agrees in number and gender with the subject --------- I'd like to mention that the past participle also agrees with any direct object that precedes the verb, such as "la table que tu as achetée". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| michaelmichael Senior Member Canada Joined 5045 days ago 167 posts - 202 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 3 of 10 26 August 2010 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
In regard to the direct object comment, this applies only to the axillary avoir n'est-ce pas ? Edited by michaelmichael on 28 August 2010 at 8:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5169 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 4 of 10 26 August 2010 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
The simple answer would be yes, except that it also applies to "avoir" verbs that take "être" because they are used in a reflexive or reciprocal structure. This is a grammatical point that even native speakers struggle with. Consider the following: Elle s'est lavée. (dir. obj. before, agreement) Elle s'est lavé les mains. (dir. obj. after, no agreement) Elle s'est acheté une table. (dir. obj. after, no agreement) La table qu'il s'est achetée. (dir. obj. before, agreement) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5799 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 5 of 10 26 August 2010 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
You mean Il s'est acheté une table I assume...? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5169 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 6 of 10 26 August 2010 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
No. That was correct. She did not buy herself; she bought a table. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5223 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes Speaks: German*, French, English | Message 7 of 10 27 August 2010 at 6:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, the difference between reflexive and reciprocal can be a brain-twister.
Trois présidents se sont succédé la même année. The three presidents don't follow themselves but one another -> no agreement. If you think agreement of French verbs is simple then you don't understand it. Here is another tricky case -- infinitive constructions: C'est la chanteuse que j'ai entendue chanter. C'est la chanson que j'ai entendu chanter. Agreement of the past participle takes place if and only if the direct object preceding the verb refers to the following infinitive. The song doesn't sing but the singer does, so there is agreement in the first example but not in the second one. The interesting thing here is that the difference is purely semantic. No spellchecker will be able to get this right. In the case of laissé + infinitive the agreement often seems to be unclear. The spelling reform of 1990 recommends not to enforce agreement of the past participle laissé: C'est la maison qu'elle a laissé vieillir. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5799 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 8 of 10 27 August 2010 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh man... that's just evil.
And that when there's absolutely no difference in pronunciation, too. I'm going to put an ice-pack on my head now. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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