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Grammar in Pimsleur | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| michaelmichael Senior Member Canada Joined 5055 days ago 167 posts - 202 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 9 of 22 01 September 2010 at 4:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree with the limiting time thing, it is important to not pause when using pimsleur. I just think most people need to build up to that. You seem like you are a very experienced language learner (10 languages in 12 years right) and I think that is why you don't have the same inhibitions as someone teaching themselves their first language after adolescence. Maybe a few years down the line, when I try to learn Spanish, I'll agree with you :). Edited by michaelmichael on 01 September 2010 at 4:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5363 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 10 of 22 01 September 2010 at 9:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I personally see Pimsleur as a drill programme - a means to close down the time spent monitoring sentences that you can already construct.
If you were using Pimsleur as a starter, I would strenously advocate ignoring the 60s audiolingual hogwash that S&S calls 'the science behind Pimsleur' about answering quickly and instead, use the pause button to think through the structures before answering - and then to use the pause button again to work out why you made mistakes (which is difficult as Pimsleur doesn't actually teach you grammar in the sense that you can monitor your mistakes) - otherwise you are just learning a phrasebook. Parsing sentences has worked since the Dark Ages for beginners in the teaching of Latin and it clearly works today - as Michel Thomas' method (pause, think through the sentence = parsing) shows. That is why I start with Thomas, go through a quick fix grammar book and a modern integrated audiocourse like LL Ultimate or Assimil and then use Pimsleur to speed up my response. But as the man said, each to his/her own. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hobbitofny Senior Member United States Joined 6031 days ago 280 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 11 of 22 01 September 2010 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I would NEVER recommending a pause in a Pimsleur course to think through the answer. If you are unable to answer correctly 80% or better in the time given, you need to repeat the lesson. There is nothing wrong in repeating a Pimsleur lesson a few time or a few days. However you slow your progress by pausing the audio before answering. This is not the same method as Michel Thomas where the pausing is needed. MT gives no space between answers. Pimsleur does give the space. The time given is the amount needed to talk the language at a near normal level.
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| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5363 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 12 of 22 01 September 2010 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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A beginner can't speak at a near normal level because they do not have the language embedded deep within their minds. I can see no logical reason why pausing 'slows your progress' - a beginner will learn more at a deeper level if they pause to think through a response and then pause again to analyse their mistakes (if they make any) - If they embed the rule by understanding how it works, they will learn faster than going through Pimsleur 4 times to learn a response by rote like a Pavlovian dog responding to a bell going off.
I also disagree that what the Pimsleur course is asking you to do is fundamentally different to Michel Thomas - there is no special science behind Pimsleur - you are taking a sentence in L1 and translating it into L2 based on vocabulary and rules you have been taught by examplar. Those rules and vocab are reinforced by being used in different variations. Through those variations you adapt those example structures so you can use them creatively. That is what MT does and it is what Pimsleur does. The main difference is that MT explains the grammatical point explicitly (albeit in non grammatical language) but Pimsleur gives a model sentence or structure from which the learner infers the grammar (hence why thinking it through is probably a good thing). As I say, I use Pimsleur without pausing as a means of helping me speed up what I already know. If I stumble upon a construction I do not know, I freely pause Pimsleur to work out and internalise the point (and I also look it up in grammar book as well) and I have to say I feel no drag in my progress by doing this. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6348 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 13 of 22 01 September 2010 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Agreed.
I think most people don't pause, but I could be wrong. If one pauses, and moves onto the next lesson at 80%, they will probably not be good enough to go without pausing on that lesson. When they finish the program they will have a lower degree of mastery over the material. The level of mastery will be like Michel Thomas, which is disappointing here because Pimsleur covers less grammar and about the same vocab in a lot more time. Pimsleur is designed for the beginner. Grammar is simple enough for the beginner to understand all the sentences without pausing or looking anything up. The learner actually thinks through the sentences without needing the pause. It's easier to do with Pimsleur than Michel Thomas because it's not as content dense.
I rarely have any problems speaking at the same speed as the speakers. If I do have problems, I repeat the lesson. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| alang Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7019 days ago 563 posts - 757 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 14 of 22 01 September 2010 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
(A little off topic) I am presuming you are referring to the Spanish plus as the fourth, because the Spanish Comprehensive four will not be released until this upcoming November. (Back on topic) Grammar wise inference is what I picked up on the most. What sounds right or wrong is enough exposure to the language. Preferably native speakers which is a strength of Pimsleur. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5754 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 15 of 22 01 September 2010 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The bleating of a goat sounds more like a "ma-a-a-a-a" than a bah to me. Goats are much too willy to waste any effort on a plosive like "b". In my opinion, both Pimsleur and Michel Thomas rock. I have done them both simultaneously for French (as a false beginner) and right from the beginning for German (as a complete newbie), and feel that I benefitted synergistically as a result. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| michaelmichael Senior Member Canada Joined 5055 days ago 167 posts - 202 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 16 of 22 02 September 2010 at 12:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
The more you know. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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