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Gary’s Language Learning Log of Glory | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 25 of 31 22 November 2010 at 12:18pm | IP Logged |
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My notes on phonology, with particular difficulties and examples for practising them:
The difference between the nasal vowels /ɔ̃/ and /ɑ̃/ (on and an/en). en/on, quand/con (yes, someone once thought I was insulting them when I was simply asking when they arrived), ton/t'en; comprendre, ils en ont... The vowels /y/ and /u/ (u and ou). Neither of them sound like "oo"/"ou" as in "soup" in English, which is more of a /ʉ/ at least in my accent; /u/ is deeper and more rounded and /y/ is pronounced like /i/ (tongue against the bottom side of the top teeth) but with the lips closed or pursed. tu/tout, du/doux, sur/sourd, au-dessus/au-dessous, and a million more pairs; pas du tout, voulu, surtout... The "euh" sounds: /ə/, /œ/, /ø/ (unaccented e such as "demain" (note that pronouncing this at all is often optional e.g. p'tit, j'vais), œ, eu). Apparently these can all be acceptably pronounced the same in a standard French accent, which makes speaking simpler but listening a bit more difficult: because of the ambiguity you have to be able to understand the context. The sound seems somewhere in between the sounds /ɪ/ and /ʉ/ to me. je veux, je le peux, je vais déjeuner à une heure avec ma sœur, etc. Nasal vowel /œ̃/ (un); for some reason I usually fail to pronounce it nasally and instead say /ʌn/ as if it were an English word. Everyone's favourite: the French R sound. I find it easy when it's at the start or the end of a word (rouge, heure) but more difficult when it's in the middle of a word (tourner, surtout) or when speaking quickly. I guess us Scots are at a slight advantage since we have the similar /x/ sound (loch, och, etc.). General rhythm of speech - best way to practise this is to record myself repeating a sentence from FSI or Assimil exercises and compare. Hopefully if I practise all of this in my own time I'll build the habits and pronounce better in conversation. Edited by garyb on 22 November 2010 at 12:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 26 of 31 23 November 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged |
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Deux voyages en France l'année prochaine !
J'ai acheté mon billet Hellfest !!! Je suis vachement excité d'y aller ! ( j'adore ce mot, « vachement », il me fait toujours sourire ! ). Ce festival aura lieu juin prochain et j’espère que je pourrai parler bien le français d'ici là, c'est mon but ! De plus, je suis assez sûr que je vais à Tignes ( aux Alpes ) en mars pour faire du snowboard. En mars j'essayerai de parler français avec les commerçants, les serveurs de bar, et même des autres skieurs et planchistes. Ça sera une occasion d'évaluer mon niveau de français et décider sur quoi je dois me concentrer pendant les deux mois suivants, avant le Hellfest. Hier soir j'ai parlé sur Skype et on m'a dit qu'il semble qu'il y a un coussin avant ma bouche donc je dois essayer d'articuler plus et/ou utiliser un meilleur micro. --- Two trips to France next year! I just bought my Hellfest ticket! I'm bloody excited to go there (I love that word "vachement" (VERY common slang adverb meaning "really"/"very"/"bloody" (BrE)/"damn"/ etc., literally tranlsates as "cow-ly"), it always makes me smile). This festival will take place next June and I hope I'll be able to speak French well by then, that's my goal! Also, I'm quite sure that I'm going to Tignes (in the Alps) in March to go snowboarding. In March I'll try to speak French with the shopkeepers, bar staff, and even other skiers and boarders. It'll be a chance to evaluate my level of French and decide what I should focus on for the following 2 months, before Hellfest. Last evening I talked on Skype and was told it sounds like there's a cushion in front of my mouth so I should try to articulate more and/or use a better mic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 27 of 31 24 November 2010 at 12:35pm | IP Logged |
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Hier soir je suis rentré au Meetup parce que j'étais libre et je pensais que je dois essayer de nouveau en dépit de l'expérience mauvais de la semaine dernière. La première heure n'était pas bon et j'ai rencontré les mêmes conneries - on me parlait en anglais, si jamais, et quand j'ai essayé de rejoindre une conversation française on m'ignorait et m'a interrompu après quelques mots. J'étais sur le point de quitter et ne jamais retourner mais j'ai essayé une dernière fois et j'ai enfin réussi à avoir une bonne conversation. Cette conversation était en français et en anglais - un échange équitable, pour une fois !
Je crois que j'ai découvert le secret de ces rencontres : il faut faire comme tout le monde en étant très égoïste ! Si on vous ignore ou vous exclure de la conversation, allez-vous-en et joindre des autres gens. Heuresement, le rencontre est de plus en plus populaire donc il y a toujours plusiers groupes de gens. Si on vous répond en anglais, répondez encore en français. Si quelqu'un ne parle pas, entamez une conversation sur n'importe quoi. Une conversation « ennuyeux » sur le temps ou ce que vous ferez demain est en fait très utile pour s'habituer à parler et pour pratiquer et renforcer les mots et expressions quotidiennes. Enfin, si un autre apprenent a un niveau assez bas que parler avec lui est énervant parce qu'il oublie un mot sur deux, parlez avec quelqu'un d'autre : servez-vous avant les autres. --- Last night I went back to the Meetup because I was free and I thought I should try again despite the bad experience last week. The first hour wasn't good and I encountered the same bullshit - people spoke to me in English, if at all, and when I tried to join a French conversation they ignored me and interrupted me after a few words. I was ready to leave and never come back but I tried one last time and finally succeeded in having a good conversation. This conversation was in French and English - a fair exchange, for once! I believe I've discovered the secret of these meetups - you have to do as everyone else does and be very selfish! If people ignore you or exclude you from the conversation, go away and talk to other people. Fortunately, the group is becoming more and more popular so there's always several groups of people. If people reply to you in English, reply back in French again. If somebody's not speaking, start a conversation on anything. A "boring" conversation about the weather or what you're doing tomorrow is in fact very useful for getting used to speaking and for practising and reinforcing day-to-day words and expressions. Finally, if another learner is at a level low enough that speaking with them is frustrating because they forget every other word, speak with somebody else: serve yourself before others. Edited by garyb on 24 November 2010 at 12:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 28 of 31 02 December 2010 at 4:47pm | IP Logged |
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Deux déjeuners français
Mardi j'ai déjeuné avec mon grand-père à un restaurant français et nous parlions avec les serveurs en mi-anglais, mi-français. Je ne parlais pas beaucoup de français mais quand je le faisais j'ai facilement compris et je pouvais répondre. Mercredi j'ai déjeuné avec des amis français chez eux. Je pouvais comprendre la plupart de la conversation mais j'avais parfois du mal à suivre quand on parlait d'autre chose ou quand on parlait très vite. Je crois que ma prononciation s'est améliorée ; j'ai toujours fait quelques erreurs mais ils pouvaient toujours me comprendre sans que je doive me répéter. Nous avons eu une conversation sur le ski et le snowboard, qui me donnait envie de faire du snowboard ! Je vais le faire ce week-end si la neige reste d'ici là. Un serveur au restaurant français nous avons donné un prospectus de l'Institut Français et leurs cours, et je me suis aperçu qu'il offre les examens DALF/DELF. Je pense passer l'examen B2 juin prochain ; il offre également cet examen en janvier et en mars, mais je doute que je sois prêt avant janvier et je serai en France le 25 mars quand l'examen se passera ! L'Institut ont une journée portes ouvertes samedi où on évalue son niveau de français, mais j'ai déjà l'intention de faire du snowboard samedi ! --- Two French lunches On Tuesday I had lunch with my Granddad at a French restaurant and we spoke with the waiters in half-English half-French. I didn't speak a lot of French but when I did I understood easily and I was able to respond. On Wednesday I had lunch with some French friends at their place. I could understand most of the conversation but I sometimes had difficulty when they changed the subject or when they spoke very quickly. I think my pronunciation's improved; I still made some errors but they could still understand me without me having to repeat myself. We had a conversation about skiing and snowboarding, which made me want to go snowboarding! I'm going to do so this weekend if the snow is still there by then. One waiter at the French restaurant gave us a leaflet about the French Institute of Scotland and their courses, and I noticed that they offer the DALF/DELF exams. I'm thinking about doing the B2 exam next June; they also offer this exam in January and March, but I doubt I'll be ready by January and I'll be in France on the 25th of March when the exam will take place! The Institute have an open day on Saturday where they evaluate your level of French, but I already plan to go snowboarding on Saturday! Edited by garyb on 02 December 2010 at 4:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 29 of 31 15 December 2010 at 1:46pm | IP Logged |
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Salut tout le monde, ça fait longtemps ! J'étais très occupé ces dernières semaines : je profitais du temps pour faire du snowboard, et j’entraînais avec mon groupe. Et j'ai actuellement un peu mal à la gorge et je ne veux pas qu'il s'aggrave donc je ne peux pas parler beaucoup.
J'ai bientôt fini French In Action, il ne reste que 6 épisodes ! Ensuite je vais le regarder de nouveau, mais seulement la première section sans les explications. Et j'aurai fini la vague passive d'Assimil dans une quinzaine... c'est une bonne façon de terminer l'année, non ? L'année prochaine, je vais : - prendre des cours avec un professeur particulier. J'ai trouvé le moins cher sur Gumtree, une étudiante française en échange - je n'ai pas besoin d'un prof expérimente, je cherche simplement quelqu'un avec qui je peux parler français pendant une heure à la fois ! - suivre le course Assimil Using French - à mon grand étonnement, la bibliothèque en a en fait une copie ! - écouter/regarder/lire plein des livres, des podcasts, la radio, la télé, des films... - retourner au Meetup après que mon niveau se sera augmenté suffisamment ( car c'est actuellement une perte de temps ). Vado anche cominciare a lavorare all'italiano. Ho le risorse seguite : - Assimil l'italien sans peine ( francese ) - Pimsleur - Michel Thomas elementari e avanzato - molti amici Italiani ! --- Hi everyone, it's been a while! I've been very busy the last few weeks : I took advantage of the weather to go snowboarding, and I've been practising with my band. And I currently have a bit of a sore throat and I don't want it to get worse so I can't speak much. I'm almost finished French in Action, only 6 episodes left! Afterwards I'm going to watch it again, but just the first section, without the explanations. And I'll have finished the passive wave of Assimil in a couple of weeks... good way to finish the year, right? Next year, I'm going to: - take lessons with a tutor. I found the cheapest one on Gumtree, a French exchange student - I don't need an experienced teacher, I'm just looking for someone with whom I can speak French for an hour at a time! - do the Assimil Using French course - to my amazement, the library actually have a copy of it! - Listen to/watch/read loads of books, podcasts, radio, TV, films... - Go back to the Meetup after my level has improved (as right now it's a waste of time). I'm also going to start working on Italian. I have the following resources: - Assimil l'italien sans peine (French) - Pimsleur - Michel Thomas basic and advanced - Lots of Italian friends! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 30 of 31 18 December 2010 at 4:15pm | IP Logged |
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SLIGHT change of plans now... it looks quite likely that I'm going to be spending a month or two in Ukraine for work next year. Being a typical HTLAL forum member, the first thing that came to my head upon hearing that news was... "sweet, an excuse to learn some Russian!!". So looks like I'll be starting Russian a couple of years earlier than originally intended to :)
So I think my current plan is to keep up the French but also start studying Russian. They're different enough languages that I shouldn't confuse them much. Italian's probably going to be put on the back-burner and I'll just look at it from time to time when I fancy some relief from the more difficult Russian. As far as Russian resources go, I'm going to try out FSI Russian FAST as it's free and seems to be what I'm looking for - something to get me up and running in the basic "getting around" language. For a more thorough study I'll probably also get a copy of the Penguin Russian course as it's cheap and apparently good. My local library has the entire Pimsleur Russian set for loan, which could be useful for getting more practice with the spoken language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5026 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 31 of 31 28 December 2010 at 7:15pm | IP Logged |
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Right, all my future logging will go in my TAC log; just putting a link here for reference.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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