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Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 161 of 407
17 August 2011 at 4:27pm | IP Logged 
The Real CZ wrote:
Arekkusu, I'm so glad that you've posted those outlines to improve speaking. While I may not be able to do step 5 for the time being, the first 4 steps will be much better than just listening and hoping to get better. I've also fallen into the trap of believing that a lot of listening would magically make me fluent in speaking down the road.

Have you given it a try yet? Please let me know how it goes!
1 person has voted this message useful



The Real CZ
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4738 days ago

1069 posts - 1495 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese, Korean

 
 Message 162 of 407
17 August 2011 at 8:13pm | IP Logged 
I'll have to get back to you in a month or so. I did try it earlier and it is really tough so I am struggling to put more than 3-4 sentences together about one topic off the top of my head. But I do have confidence that if I keep working on it every day it will get better. I'll probably have to start writing and thinking more in my L2 to make it easier too.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 163 of 407
17 August 2011 at 8:22pm | IP Logged 
The Real CZ wrote:
I'll have to get back to you in a month or so. I did try it earlier and it is really tough so I am struggling to put more than 3-4 sentences together about one topic off the top of my head. But I do have confidence that if I keep working on it every day it will get better. I'll probably have to start writing and thinking more in my L2 to make it easier too.

Do let me know; I hope there are ways to make the exercise better.

If you use a TV show as a starting point, I'm sure you'll come up with a lot more than just 3 or 4 sentences if you attempt to describe the entire show from beginning to end.
2 persons have voted this message useful



The Real CZ
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4738 days ago

1069 posts - 1495 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese, Korean

 
 Message 164 of 407
17 August 2011 at 9:50pm | IP Logged 
Yeah, I got 3-4 sentences from describing a short scene from the Kdrama I'm watching. My problem is that I have a huge gap between passive and active knowledge. I will keep using it and give feedback in ways I think it could be improved.
1 person has voted this message useful



nickuk
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3946 days ago

2 posts - 2 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 165 of 407
18 August 2011 at 12:29pm | IP Logged 
Hello Arekkusu and thanks for this very informative blog. I'm heading to university in September and I want to learn
Japanese, although I have no language learning experience of any note. I wondered, on average, how many hours
you studied Japanese during the first two years of your studies. When I leave university in three years time, I'd be
chuffed if I was at the C1 level that you were at at the start of this blog. My initial guess is that is over-optimistic
but if you don't try you'll never know, right?
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 166 of 407
18 August 2011 at 1:39pm | IP Logged 
nickuk wrote:
Hello Arekkusu and thanks for this very informative blog. I'm heading to university in
September and I want to learn
Japanese, although I have no language learning experience of any note. I wondered, on average, how
many hours
you studied Japanese during the first two years of your studies. When I leave university in three years time,
I'd be
chuffed if I was at the C1 level that you were at at the start of this blog. My initial guess is that is over-
optimistic
but if you don't try you'll never know, right?

Hi!
I never kept track of how much I study, but I understand these two main factors: 1) I only study in short
bouts of 15-30 minutes at most, except when I watch TV or meet partners, and 2) I spend more time
thinking in the language and playing with in my head than I do sitting down and actually studying. In terms
of formal studying, I probably did less hours than most sites suggest for each stage (A1, etc.), but because
of the way I learn, I probably spent many more hours. Whereas most students worry about input, I care
more about output and controlling what I already know. As far as I can tell, self-talk and focus on oral is the
most efficient way to reach fluency. However, while this comes naturally to me, I'm not sure whether it's
sometimes hard for some people to follow such a method because it's against their genetic makeup or if it's
just because they lack practice.

Without wanting to sound presumptuous, I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect C1 in 2 years. For
one thing, Japanese was not my first L2, far from it, so I had a very clear vision or where I was going and
what mattered in my studies. However, I do believe that with proper focus on oral, if you always make sure
to try to express your mind and learn the skills that you appear to be lacking when talking (grammar, vocab,
etc.) -- in other words, if you use the language a lot and you pay attention to where your needs and
weaknesses are --, you should see steady progress above that of your classmates. Note that I'm not
guaranteeing good marks, but only a faster path to fluency. Sometimes, classes have a bad habit of putting
a lot of focus on things that really don't matter that much (kanji, counters, etc.).

One last thing: don't wait for the class to start -- go get a book or listen to a podcast (like japanesepod101)
and get started now. Today. And don't forget to have fun!
1 person has voted this message useful



nickuk
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3946 days ago

2 posts - 2 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 167 of 407
18 August 2011 at 2:15pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
Hi!
I never kept track of how much I study, but I understand these two main factors: 1) I only study in short
bouts of 15-30 minutes at most, except when I watch TV or meet partners, and 2) I spend more time
thinking in the language and playing with in my head than I do sitting down and actually studying. In terms
of formal studying, I probably did less hours than most sites suggest for each stage (A1, etc.), but because
of the way I learn, I probably spent many more hours. Whereas most students worry about input, I care
more about output and controlling what I already know. As far as I can tell, self-talk and focus on oral is the
most efficient way to reach fluency. However, while this comes naturally to me, I'm not sure whether it's
sometimes hard for some people to follow such a method because it's against their genetic makeup or if it's
just because they lack practice.

Without wanting to sound presumptuous, I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect C1 in 2 years. For
one thing, Japanese was not my first L2, far from it, so I had a very clear vision or where I was going and
what mattered in my studies. However, I do believe that with proper focus on oral, if you always make sure
to try to express your mind and learn the skills that you appear to be lacking when talking (grammar, vocab,
etc.) -- in other words, if you use the language a lot and you pay attention to where your needs and
weaknesses are --, you should see steady progress above that of your classmates. Note that I'm not
guaranteeing good marks, but only a faster path to fluency. Sometimes, classes have a bad habit of putting
a lot of focus on things that really don't matter that much (kanji, counters, etc.).

One last thing: don't wait for the class to start -- go get a book or listen to a podcast (like japanesepod101)
and get started now. Today. And don't forget to have fun!


Thanks for the reply. I'm studying business management at university so learning Japanese will be a hobby, and
one that I'll have to make a fair amount of time for. Granted, I will have a lot of free time as a student.

I actually meant that I'd like to be at the C1 level in three years time. However, I've just read about the respective
levels in more detail and I think that I should revise the target to B2, which I'd still be very pleased with! There's a
Japanese society at my future university in London which will hopefully give me the opportunity to practice on a
regular basis, though I'm already going through Tae Kim's grammar guide and japanesepod101.

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly try both an input and output focused approach and see which would suit me
better (and which I enjoy more).

1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 168 of 407
19 August 2011 at 8:27pm | IP Logged 
A gentleman by the name of Petr Dvořák has interviewed me and a few other polyglots, including Sprachprofi, and posted the interviews on his website. Some of them are in Czech only, but mine is in English (at least for now until he translates it). It can be found here.

Those questions are quite subjective and I feel like I might have answered differently on a different day. Feel free to leave comments here or on his site should you have any.


2 persons have voted this message useful



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