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Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur

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Volte
Tetraglot
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Switzerland
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Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 241 of 407
28 November 2011 at 7:39am | IP Logged 
Nice work!

While there are quite a few corrections below, most are truly minor, and you did an unbelievably good job considering how new you are to the language.

Arekkusu wrote:

Hieraux, mi rigardis bonegan filmon. Estis la historio de unu viro kiu havis filon kiu volis vojagxi por vidi la
mondon. Cxar estis bona patro, li volis ke sia filo studu por ke li trovu bonan laboron. Sed la filo estis sole
interesata pri vojagxoj. Pro tia racio, la raporto entre ili estis malfacilega. La filo faris gxin kiun volis kaj ekiris
por vojagxi.


"Estis la historio de unu viro, kiu havis filon, kiu volis vojagxi por vidi la
mondon". A minor orthography note: use a comma before words like 'kiu' that start relative clauses.

I'd be tempted to use "vojaĝadi" rather than vojaĝi, but vojaĝi is also correct; it just places less emphasis on the ongoing nature of the travels, while vojaĝadi suggests that the son really wants to travel around a lot for a long time.

Cxar li estis bona patro, si volis... the pronoun is necessary in the first clause. Otherwise, it sounds a lot like saying "Because is good father, he wants..." in English; it's comprehensible, but not right.

Arekkusu wrote:

Iam, dum li ludis golfon kun amikoj, la patro ricevis telefonan vokon de Francujo. Sia filo mortis dum marsxis
sur la irejo de Kompostelo.


You need to say "Lia filo mortis..." 'Si' cannot be used as the subject of a sentence.

Your constructions with 'dum' are comprehensible, but I'd tend to use the participle or kiam. "Iam, ludante golfon kun amikoj, la patro ricevis telefonan alvokon de Francujo. Lia filo mortis marŝante..." or "Iam, kiam li ludis golfon kun amikoj...Lia filo mortis kiam li marŝis..."

As your example with "estis interesata" shows you understand, "mortis marŝante" means that he died while walking; like in English, this could mean while physically walking, or during a trip where he was walking, even if he happened to be doing something else at that moment. "Mortis marŝinte" would mean that he'd already finished walking before he died; the time of the participle is relative to "mortis", not absolute with reference to now or the story.

Arekkusu wrote:

Li decidis iri al Francujo por rekuperi la restojn de sia filo. Post li alvenis tie, li komprenis ke tia vojagxo
estis gravega por sia filo. Do decidis li ke li marsxu sur la irejo en lia memoro.


I think "rekuperi" is a false cognate. It's not a word I'm familiar with, and lernu defines it as "to reuse/to reprocess", which is a slightly disturbing thought. I'd use "preni" or "havigi" or "reakiri" instead.

"Tia vojaĝô" is correct if you want to say "this kind of voyage"; if you want to say "this voyage", say "tiu vojaĝô".

Arekkusu wrote:

Survoje, li renkontis multajn aliajn vojagxulojn. Komence, li ne estis interesata por la homoj kiun li
renkontis, sed eventuale ili igxis amikojn kaj li komprenis la valoron de la homoj.


"..por la homoj" should be "je la homoj". Using iĝis as an independent word is correct, but when it can easily be attached to another word, it almost invariably is, so it would be far more usual to say "ili amikiĝis".

'Eventuale' is like in the Romance languages, not in English; lernu defines it as "if the occasion arises, in case, if necessary". You mean 'finfine'.

Arekkusu wrote:

De la filmo se komprenas ke la plu grava afero en sia vivo ne estas la argxento, ne estas la laboro, sed
estas la homoj kiujn oni renkontas.


"El la filmo, oni komprenas.... la homoj, kiujn" (another missing comma). "Se" means "if", and isn't analogous to 'si' or reflexives in the romance languages.

Overall, well done!


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Arekkusu
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 Message 242 of 407
28 November 2011 at 1:01pm | IP Logged 
Thank you very much for all your corrections; they are clear and easy to follow. It's very helpful!
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Arekkusu
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 Message 243 of 407
02 December 2011 at 9:28pm | IP Logged 
Time for a little update.

Did some Esperanto this week. Looking forward to my first opportunity to actually speak it. Planning on reading a text and answering oral questions about it. A previous session of doing a similar exercice while chatting (with Sprachprofi) went fairly well, I think.

Japanese -- nothing too serious lately: some reading, some dramas... I continue to have 2 or 3 practice opportunities per week. I don't know if it's because I've been doing little that's been really challenging of late, but I've been feeling quite at ease lately. The next step I'm working on is acquiring a higher degree of sophistication.
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Arekkusu
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 Message 244 of 407
05 December 2011 at 5:00pm | IP Logged 
In the end, all that really matters in language acquisition is observing, analyzing and imitating.

Observe the language -- read it, listen to it, study lessons about it, etc. What you do matters little as long as you look at or listen to the language with the next two steps in mind.

Analyze it -- attempt to understand every word, the way they are put together, the order, the reason for any endings or phonological modifications, etc. Doesn't matter what you do, as long as you understand it enough to do the following step.

Imitate -- put together the knowledge you have amassed in the 2 previous steps and produce the language, in writing or orally, the best you can so as to mimic the language you have observed and understood. Making assumptions about what should or could be correct is okay, and should be encouraged, as long as you look for a sign of confirmation in subsequent observation sessions.

How you do these steps and what material you use is of little importance, beyond the fact that you should use whatever creates the biggest impact on you.

Do other learners agree? Does that seem like an oversimplification? Do you feel that the way these steps are tackled makes a big difference? Let me know if you agree or disagree.

Edited by Arekkusu on 06 December 2011 at 9:39pm

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Arekkusu
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 Message 245 of 407
07 December 2011 at 5:50pm | IP Logged 
What is considered correct pronunciation (including intonation) in a language is not clearly defined: it's a continuum of possibilities that are bordered on either side by incorrect pronunciation. In other words, finding the boundaries is what really matters.

One implication is that experimentation is important. As you learn to produce sounds, you need to play around with the sounds and allow some exploration until you find where those boundaries lie.

Another implication is that strict shadowing is not necessary. Since the right pronunciation can only be acquired after you have copied multiple possible forms, not just one and not just one speaker, there is merit in loosely copying the various speakers we encounter whenever a phrase, word or sentence strikes us. I believe this is, in the long run, more effective than attempting to shadow one speech with great accuracy.

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Arekkusu
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 Message 246 of 407
10 December 2011 at 8:54pm | IP Logged 
Spent some time reactivating my German today, thanks to Sprachprofi! Boy, it had been
ages since I'd spoken German! All in all, I didn't do too bad, all things considered.

I might have to add German to my list of priorities for 2012...
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Sprachprofi
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 Message 247 of 407
10 December 2011 at 9:09pm | IP Logged 
Accent: perfect, even down to intonation
Grammar: almost perfect, review a few irregular verb forms
Vocabulary: your passive vocabulary is huge, you need to re-activate some of it though -
still I'm astonished at how much German you were able to use actively after all this
time.
Also, your fluency is very good. Focus on activating vocabulary and you could be at
Advanced Fluency (C2) level with less than 100 hours of work.

Edited by Sprachprofi on 10 December 2011 at 9:13pm

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Arekkusu
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 Message 248 of 407
16 December 2011 at 5:03pm | IP Logged 
I'm getting all excited about the Finnish challenge! The hardest part will likely be to wait until February before starting! [I already added Finnish in the list of languages I study, however, so I can tag posts like this one.] In short, we'll be studying Finnish for a maximum of 45 hours during a 30-day period to see where it takes us. Many of us use different approaches and favour different skills, so it will be interesting to see how our results differ from the tests taken at the end.

Obviously, my goal is speaking the language. I plan to go through a teaching method like Teach Yourself as quickly as I can (no time to listen to the recordings!), pronouncing everything outloud, and using that information to create sentences that are meaningful to me. If anyone out there did TY Finnish, I'd be curious to know how long it took you to get through it. I hope I can also find a tutor or teacher that I can meet for a few hours a week to supplement all this, but at the local level, I haven't been successful yet. Anyone available? Anyone available to help test participants at the end of the challenge?

***

I've hardly done any studying this week, although I've had opportunities to talk Japanese and watch a few shows. I've been recording the last few conversations I had in Japanese. During the first 2 discussions, I ended up being rather disappointed in the results because I tended to rush and speak too fast, making certain things not as clear as they should be (although it surprisingly didn't hinder comprehension), so during the 3rd and most recent conversation, I was more careful and I'm happier with the results. But there's still a lot of work to do, no doubt about it.

Edited by Arekkusu on 16 December 2011 at 5:04pm



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