Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
407 messages over 51 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 39 ... 50 51 Next >>
Luai_lashire
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
luai-lashire.deviant
Joined 4917 days ago

384 posts - 560 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto
Studies: Japanese, French

 
 Message 305 of 407
22 April 2012 at 6:06pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:

I've talked about pitch accent on this and other forums, and a lot of people have said to me as has been said
to every other learner interested in pitch: just listen to native speakers and copy. Well, guess what, native
speakers themselves have a hard time figuring out where it is, so the idea that non-native learner would just
pick it up from listening to natural speech is completely unrealistic.


I have to slightly disagree. It depends on the learner. I have noticed that the majority of people seem to be
unable to pick up pitch this way, but personally, I find it works best for me. Every time we were instructed in
pitch in my Japanese class, it was useless to me (the teachers were actually wrong sometimes!); but I actually
have quite good pitch accent (even my very strict teachers have said so) and I picked it all up from listening and
copying. I am a better-than-average mimic, so that's probably why it works for me, but I'm sure there are others
out there with this skill, too.
I do worry that I don't have the right pitch when I learn a new word by reading, but I try to listen as much as
possible in the hopes that I will hear words I've only read before and be able to pick up their pitch; besides which,
I am pretty good at predicting what patterns there are in pitch accents. So it's imperfect, but it does work all
right, especially given the lack of materials for learning pitch.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 306 of 407
22 April 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged 
Although I'm very reluctant to do so, I will entertain the idea that a person may pick up
on all those subtleties only through listening and copying, but that person will take a
long time and will need a massive amount of exposure.

On the other hand, I know many language learners who lived in Japan for many years and
never did pick it up. I know Steve Kaufmann didn't know of pitch, nor did he care about
it, despite living in Japan for 9 years, and listening to Khatz's videos (from AJATT),
it's obvious he hasn't picked up the pitch on even the most common words like aru and
iru.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 307 of 407
24 April 2012 at 8:41pm | IP Logged 
I'm writing this here so that I force myself to actually finish the project...

I started drafting a video on Japanese pitch. I will cover the concept of mora (essential in understanding pitch), then go on to provide an overview of the high/low system, the effect of pitch, and I'll explain some of the most common changes affecting the pitch of nouns and verbs.

Anything specific anyone would like to see covered?
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5686 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 308 of 407
25 April 2012 at 1:24am | IP Logged 
mora is the same concept as in haikus, right? :)
/#justrandomlycurious
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 309 of 407
25 April 2012 at 4:24am | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
mora is the same concept as in haikus, right? :)

Indeed, haikus are made up of 17 morae.
1 person has voted this message useful



Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 310 of 407
25 April 2012 at 4:31am | IP Logged 
Oh my god, Arekkusu! I'll finally be able to hear your Japanese?

I've been waiting so long to hear how you handle intonation. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to read your posts about how good you are at mimicry and not be able to hear it. Actually, I listened to your Finnish sound file and thought, "Wow. He sounds like he really can pick up foreign accents easily. Now, why doesn't he post something in Japanese?"

I have a request: Could you do the whole video in Japanese? Heck, it might be another year before you post something again, so I'm gonna need something to hold me over 'til then.

I was upset that you said you didn't know what to talk about on your Youtube channel. The answer is so obvious to me: you should debate! I registered on Youtube just so I could pull you into a debate in Japanese. I'll post such a video soon. Don't worry. I have a very gentlemanly debate style that you may like. Besides, you'll be able to help me get rid of my American accent.

Edited by Hiiro Yui on 26 April 2012 at 12:45pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 311 of 407
25 April 2012 at 5:01am | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui wrote:
Oh my god, Arrekusu! I'll finally be able to hear your Japanese?

I've been waiting so long to hear how you handle intonation. I can't tell you how
frustrating it is to read your posts about how good you are at mimicry and not be able
to hear it. Actually, I listened to your Finnish sound file and thought, "Wow. He
sounds like he really can pick up foreign accents easily. Now, why doesn't he post
something in Japanese?"

I have a request: Could you do the whole video in Japanese? Heck, it might be another
year before you post something again, so I'm gonna need something to hold me over 'til
then.

I was upset that you said you didn't know what to talk about on your Youtube channel.
The answer is so obvious to me: you should debate! I registered on Youtube just so I
could pull you into a debate in Japanese. I'll post such a video soon. Don't worry. I
have a very gentlemanly debate style that you may like. Besides, you'll be able to help
me get rid of my American accent.

このビデオを日本語でしないと思う理由はア クセントを日本語を学んでいる人に教えたい からです。
I won't be doing the video in Japanese because the point is to teach pitch accent to
foreigners. Moreover, I don't have the ability to talk with such technical prowess.
However, I will be giving lots of examples in Japanese, including whole sentences, and
perhaps a paragraph or two that I would dissect.

You registered on Youtube just so you could pull me into a debate in Japanese? Is this
a joke?

I really care about Japanese pitch and I want to learn it well, but I make mistakes all
the time. It's by far the worst aspect of my pronunciation in any of the languages I
know. If you want to hear me, you can hear my participation in a speech contest 2
years ago speech contest -- go to slide 58.
Remember that
this was about a year and a half into my study, that I was nervous, but also that I had
rehearsed the speech quite a bit.

Edited by Arekkusu on 25 April 2012 at 5:34am

1 person has voted this message useful



Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 312 of 407
25 April 2012 at 5:32am | IP Logged 
Um, I can't get that link to work. I tried removing the space in "c e714a04", but....

Like you, I'm a bit reluctant to post things online. As I mentioned before, I intentionally avoid speaking Japanese because I don't want any bad habits. I kinda want to sound like those NHK newscasters. Because I don't practice speaking, I am particularly afraid of letting people see just how bad I am at spontaneous speech. I wrote that I would post a video in order to force myself to actually go ahead with it, just like you.

When I say "debate", think of the kind of posts you write on this forum, only using spoken words. I intended for this to be a learning experience for both of us.

よろしくお願いします。


1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 407 messages over 51 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3440 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2022 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.