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Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 313 of 407
25 April 2012 at 5:34am | IP Logged 
I fixed the link.
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Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 314 of 407
25 April 2012 at 9:52am | IP Logged 
I needed to finally download Firefox to watch it. Thanks for the video, Arekkusu.

I've been learning Japanese (off and on) for over 10 years, and my interest doesn't
wander to other languages, so it's natural that I'd have the bigger passive vocabulary. I've always known that. But when I read that you have regular contact with real, live Japanese people and speak only Japanese with them, it made me think you could probably express the views you write on this forum pretty well despite having a more limited vocabulary. Am I wrong?

Edited by Hiiro Yui on 26 April 2012 at 12:37pm

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Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 315 of 407
25 April 2012 at 1:05pm | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui wrote:
I've been learning Japanese (off and on) for over 10 years, and my interest doesn't
wander to other languages, so it's natural that I'd have the bigger passive vocabulary. I've always known that.
But when I read that you have regular contact with real, live Japanese people and speak only Japanese with
them, it made me think you could probably express the views you write on this forum pretty well despite
having a more limited vocabulary. Am I wrong?

Probably not, but teaching phonology issues is another matter entirely.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 316 of 407
25 April 2012 at 6:22pm | IP Logged 
Or would a video on Japanese pronunciation in general be more useful to you, Hiiro Yui? I could make one on that after.
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Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 317 of 407
26 April 2012 at 2:38am | IP Logged 
ありがとう、Arekkusuさん。
そのビデオを楽しみに しています。

今日 僕は初めてのビデオを
 Youtubeにのせました。

http://youtu.be/QgDyBIwXeCc

アクセントと 発音について コメントして くださいませんか。

Edited by Hiiro Yui on 26 April 2012 at 12:36pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 318 of 407
26 April 2012 at 4:55am | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui wrote:
   ありがとう、Arrekusuさん。
そのビデオを楽しみに しています。

今日 僕は初めてのビデオを
 Youtubeにのせました。

http://youtu.be/QgDyBIwXeCc

アクセントと 発音について コメントして くださいませんか。

Hiiro Yui, I only gave the video a quick listen, but you didn't an awesome job!

I assumed you were American from your profile, but I can actually hear African
influence in some sounds. I can't explain it clearly, maybe because of some
constriction in the vowels? There's something in the k, sometimes ta is tsa (should be
pronounced closer to the tip of the tongue), etc. When I find more time, I will try to
explain this in more details.

Also, shi is a problem, especially going from hi to shi. Asahi shimbun comes up so
often, it's hard not to notice.

As for accent, I'm not in a position to comment -- you're doing really well. Did you
memorize this from shadowing? If not, you should be doing the video on pitch, not I :)

Comments are disabled on the video, but you really should open it up and let Japanese
people comment. I bet they'd really help you too.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 319 of 407
26 April 2012 at 6:18pm | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui, a Japanese friend of mine commented on your video. She too noticed some issues with カ行 and サ行, and gave more details about pitch. Here are her comments. Hope it helps you.

とっても日本語が上手ですね!発音もとって も良いと思います!丁寧に話しているのがよ く分かります。ただ、カ行とサ行はちょっと 発音しにくそうですね。単語や熟語・固有名 詞などの発音が、日本人とは違いがあるよう に思いました。

例:誤り(あやまり)、事実認識(じじつに んしき)、配管内部(はいかんないぶ)、
  四国電力、ホームページ、NHK、時期、回 数などの、阿部、容疑者、7人

でも全体的にアナウンサーの発音に近いので 、もう少し練習していくとより日本人が話し ているように聞こえるのではないでしょうか 。
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Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 320 of 407
27 April 2012 at 7:54am | IP Logged 
Arekkusu, thanks for offering to help me. I posted two more videos today so you would have more material to work with. I wonder what it would take to get Luai lashire to join us in making videos.

I'm an African-American born to African-American parents, and have been living in the US since early childhood. I spoke nothing but English until middle school when I learned some German. My family moved a few times to different states, and I like to think that my particular accent isn't from a particular region of the US. I've always wondered if people like you could pinpoint where I got my accent from just by listening, so I made a video of me speaking English.

When you said there's something African about my accent, I remembered you said the same thing about Khatzu. You do know that he actually is African, and his mother tongue is one of those rarely mentioned ones, right? I know you're Canadian, so I can't expect you to be familiar with all the accents of Americans, but I think I speak like most African-Americans. You creeped me out with that "African influence" stuff.

As for my shi sounds, back when I first started I read many descriptions of what ɕ sounds like. It's similar to ʃ but you're not supposed to purse your lips, and it is weaker (close to s). Or so I thought. I always pronounce it slightly different from s, but you and my Skype partners are mis-hearing it as s. I realize this means I have to pronounce it more strongly, but I don't want to run the risk of it sounding too much like ʃ.

When I'm speaking English, I think I always aspirate k sounds that are at the beginnings of syllables. When I'm enunciating, I aspirate all t's and k's. I always aspirate my t's and k's when speaking Japanese because I thought that's what newscasters do.

I decided early on that I want to be one of those speakers that always pronounces j sounds as dj, and z sounds as dz. I always precede the vibration with putting my tongue in the position of d. My dj and dz end up sounding like eachother because of my aforementioned ɕ problem.

I read that the Japanese t is different from the one in English in that your tongue touches your front teeth. So, for all these years I've been putting my tongue on my alveolar ridge such that there is lots of strong contact with it, and forward enough that the very tip of my tongue just barely touches the base of my front teeth. In the past year however, I read another description that calls the Japanese t "dental" or something, and I started worrying that I'm supposed to curl the tip of my tongue upward so that the very tip touches the base of my front teeth, and my tongue has almost no contact with the alveolar ridge. Note: I don't know where the very tip of my tongue ends and the upperside or underside of the tip of my tongue begins, but when I do it this way there is usually contact with the entire back side of my front teeth. When I get self-conscious I use this newer version.

Every time there is more than one acceptable way to pronounce a word, I choose the first one that NHK lists in its accent dictionary because that is the one NHK thinks is the most suitable for country-wide usage. I therefore try to use the recommended accent instead of exactly copying what the newscaster says. The problem is I don't know how to do this and sound natural.

For all the above reasons, there is only a small segment of the earth's population that can help me achieve what I want. Some of those people gather online on just a few forums, so I disabled comments on the videos. It is precisely because I decided years ago (when I first learned that I'd have to memorize the pitches of individual words) to avoid speaking much that I am capable of breaking bad speaking habits and creating new ones. With your help, I'll be able to prove that your theory concerning self-talk isn't the only one that's right!

Note to other Japanese learners: I learned from reading Nilecat's (native Japanese person) posts on thejapanesepage.com that 日本語が上手ですね should be thought of as an icebreaker, kinda like "How's the weather where you're from?" so I'm trying hard not to be angry.

記事の部分的発音:http://youtu.be/L2E2KO00Cbo

記事を米語で説明:http://youtu.be/gW97XlWFNag


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