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Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 385 of 407
28 October 2012 at 5:51pm | IP Logged 
I see what you mean by making guesses about word usage and constantly revising those guess through conversation, but do you ever write anything down? Can you just memorize your guesses? I guess that's where talking to yourself a lot helps, right? You don't ask for explicit confirmation of your guesses during conversation because it would ruin the flow, right? Oh, I just looked back at the older posts here, and it seems that taking notes is part of that self-talk exercise. I'm thinking of jumping in once I figure out how to adapt it to my needs. I'm still nervous about creating bad habits and not getting corrected. Unlike you, finding new and creative ways of expressing myself in Japanese isn't fun. I prefer to know the "correct" way and I would love strict teachers.

My main guy (San Francisco, here) isn't really into giving detailed explanations of word usage or correcting me much. I had him read through my Japanese posts and although he didn't find many mistakes, he felt they somehow don't sound like a Japanese person wrote them. He couldn't give any more detail than that. The good thing about him is he puts up with my boastful attitude and constant arguing, but maybe I should wait until I find someone else before starting to talk more. It would help if I could find someone that could repeat my sentences with the correct intonations, too. I liked your idea about recording our conversation and playing it back so he can give better advice, but he's literally not patient enough (he'll probably change the subject) and he has his own ideas about how I should practice. He says I should do more small-talk, but I hate it because it's too unimportant. I want to discuss politics and science and things that matter.

I'm searching for a partner on The Mixxer, but maybe I'm doing things backwards. Maybe I should post things on Lang-8 and find someone who can correct me and put up with me, and then get him to use Skype...
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Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 386 of 407
29 October 2012 at 12:41am | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui wrote:
I see what you mean by making guesses about word usage and constantly
revising those guess through conversation, but do you ever write anything down? Can you
just memorize your guesses?

I rarely write things down during a conversation. I cherish the moment and I try to
invest myself in it, if I can. If I was looking for confirmation on something and it
didn't come up, too bad; if it's important, it'll come up again. It always does.

Hiiro Yui wrote:
I guess that's where talking to yourself a lot helps, right? You don't
ask for explicit confirmation of your guesses during conversation because it would ruin
the flow, right? Oh, I just looked back at the older posts here, and it seems that
taking notes is part of that self-talk exercise.

I only take notes when I want to check something later, or ask someone. Generally, I
try to do all my oral practice without notes. I'm not one to read notes anyway.

Hiiro Yui wrote:
I'm still nervous about creating bad habits and not getting corrected.
Unlike you, finding new and creative ways of expressing myself in Japanese isn't fun. I
prefer to know the "correct" way and I would love strict teachers.

Again, you cannot be dependent on teachers. From the moment you figure out how to
correct yourself, no teacher is needed and you never have to worry about not being
corrected. Which doesn't mean you can't benefit from the input of a knowledgeable
teacher every now and then, though, but if you have high goals and you can't find
anyone to help you, then you know where to look -- to yourself.

1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 387 of 407
30 October 2012 at 7:28pm | IP Logged 
Stopping... to better start again

Generally, I really enjoy starting a new language. I have a strong initial burst of energy and I really love the kind of rush that comes with acquiring new habits and sonorities; it's like starting a new puzzle, a new project, a new relationship. Eventually, though, I often give up. I gave up a lot of languages that way. But later, when and if I ever go back to that language, it all comes back really quickly and this allows for fast progress.

I think any new language has to simmer in you a bit before certain brain connections are made -- the sounds, intonations, tones, grammar concepts, tendancies, etc. By attacking it first and letting it simmer on the side, you can come back to it later and progress faster.

My recent experience with Esperanto has even led me to think that it's an effective learning technique on its own. If I had to pick up a new language quickly, I'd go back to Norwegian or Italian because I already had a basis in it that would be easy to awaken to conversational level.

I did a bit of Esperanto last November (almost a year exactly). I don't remember for how long, but maybe something like two weeks. Then I gave up. Well, I set it aside, to be more precise. Now, the possibility of using Esperanto at the next JES meeting has brought me back to Esperanto, so I started studying it again last week or so.

Presumably because I continued to think about Esperanto and I'd see it every now and then, restarting now has brought on a quick recovery and improvement, so much so that I was able to hold a conversation with Sprachprofi after about a week. There's room for improvement of course, and this is Esperanto we are talking about, but still, there is a clear benefit to having done a bit of it a year ago.
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Hiiro Yui
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3806 days ago

111 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese

 
 Message 388 of 407
02 November 2012 at 11:55am | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:

..., but if you have high goals and you can't find
anyone to help you, then you know where to look -- to yourself.
You'll be proud to know that after reading this I started talking to myself this week. I started strong Monday, but I've been slacking off recently. I'll try to keep it up.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 389 of 407
02 November 2012 at 12:15pm | IP Logged 
Hiiro Yui wrote:
You'll be proud to know that after reading this I started talking to myself this week.

Now, here's something you don't hear everyday.

Good on you! Let me know how it goes!

Edited by Arekkusu on 02 November 2012 at 2:39pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 390 of 407
06 November 2012 at 6:20pm | IP Logged 
Still working on Esperanto, although I don't get much time to study at all -- more production and self-talk than anything.

Posted this Esperanto text in Lang-8: La sinparolado
2 persons have voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 391 of 407
08 November 2012 at 2:42am | IP Logged 
I'm trying to prepare a small workshop for some Japanese students on the topic of R/L.

If anyone has dealt with this issue in particular with some students and has advice on
what has appeared to work, I'm all ears.
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 4470 days ago

3971 posts - 7746 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 392 of 407
10 November 2012 at 2:35am | IP Logged 
I was just asked how I worked on my Esperanto by a person who had apparently liked my
last Lang-8 Esperanto text.

Thinking through it, I think there are two main factors that had a strong impact and
that might be a bit different from what most learners would do.

First of all, I study little, but I rehash it a lot through self-talk. The result is
that I get the feeling I own the material and I’m comfortable using it. Also, points of
doubt arise during self-talk and I look up the answer as needed.

Second point, I always read a text critically (from Teach Yourself or Lernu, or even a
book like Fajron sentas mi interne, which I’ve also been reading), wondering whether
I’d express myself that way – if not, I examine it until it makes sense or look for
answers or reasons. I’m not concerned with understanding the text, but rather with
whether I’ve assimilated the structure or words well enough that they could come out of
my mouth. This critical look carries into any conversation and almost every time I say
something, I filter it in the back of my mind to see if there was something wrong or
possibly off. Many would say that it would be crazy to try to talk while always
thinking about your mistakes, but I do it so often because of self-talk that it no
longer has much of a negative effect, if any.

That being said, Esperanto is a special case, and I'm not at all saying any other
learner couldn't learn it just as quickly with their own personal techniques.


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