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Introverts and Extroverts | ||
Tags: Introvert and Extrovert | Conversation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6490 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 59 17 November 2010 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you ask people here at HTLAL to define themselves on an introvert-extrovert scale then you might get an overrepresentation of introverts. If I were looking for truly extroverts on the internet then Facebook would probably have a higher percentage, and they would not be chatting about learning languages, but about finding a bar and some beer and some social interaction with their friends in their (common) native language. And if they are learning languages then very social persons will either follow courses or seek living persons that speak those languages. Those that prefer learning from books, magazins and the internet at home are most likely not very social.
I have noticed two remarks on this page: IrishPolyglot's about seemingly shy persons who suddenly turn out to be the life of some party, and Aineko's about waiting to enter a discussion until there is something really interesting to discuss, like babies' personality and brain development rather than crying, sleeping, teeth and poo. Which shows that introversion isn't the same thing as shyness or innate contact problems - it's more a matter of having other priorities than simple social interaction all the time. Which reminds me about an article or blog post somewhere on the internet that said something like "Please shut up - I'm trying to learn your language!" Edited by Iversen on 17 November 2010 at 8:54pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5258 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 10 of 59 17 November 2010 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I understand well the situation of not being interested in the conversation of others and thus appearing shy. I have
been there and done that but it is important to realize that that can lead others to find you very boring. When I encounter someone who only wants to talk of things that interest them I soon start to find them very tiresome and uninteresting. You can use this to your advantage by realizing that most people love to talk about themselves, their stuff and their interests and will speak to you in whatever language you like to do so. As for what an introvert can do to help promote active vocabulary, I have been seeking something that is not a second class replacement for real conversation but something that will complement it. In a conversation I often find that the pressure to produce output quickly can lead me to retreat to a small overused subset of my real potential. I have some good success with memorizing small texts and reciting or recording them for a day or two. It has forced me to learn someone else's way of expressing a thought and get used to speaking it, rather than falling back on much overused phrases. By example, in French I understood the gerondif form ( en + <present participle> ) perfectly whenever I heard it spoken and I used it when writing but for some reason never thought to use it when speaking. The memorization exercise cured this problem in a way that real conversations did not. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5798 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 11 of 59 17 November 2010 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Very interesting point, Splog, and one that's all too often hidden behind waffle on learning styles. Thanks for making me think.
Yup, and that's why an introvert can be the life and soul of the party -- it's just a matter of the right crowd and the right topic of conversation. Self-identification isn't always correct, as IrishPolyglot says, but I don't think that's too big a deal because if you've got a list of extrovert activities and introvert activities, the learner will know what things appeal to them and what things they dread. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5634 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 59 17 November 2010 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, that's typically me!!! But I was an introvert in my youth - mainly influenced by my parents' education, so introvertion - extrovertion may change later in life. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 17 November 2010 at 9:02pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5235 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 13 of 59 17 November 2010 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||
that's why I seek interaction with people who share my interests (which are not narrow at all and I also love learning new things that I find interesting), rather than seeking interaction with people in general, in order to 'be social' by all means. For example, I never got the idea of going out to drink. When I go out, I go out to dance. The consequence is, given the structure of the social/night life in NZ - I don't go out. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5420 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 14 of 59 17 November 2010 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Iversen I think you are talking about this:
Leave me alone - can't you see I'm learning your language I talk to plenty of non-language learners, and even go to bars and still find people telling me they are introverts. They're in the bar, but prefer talking to one or two people rather than the full party. To me they are extroverts because they get their energy out of social interactions and are very comfortable in those reactions; they just happen to be "shy" with strangers. Not being the life of the party does not make you an introvert. And this is the problem. It's human nature to compare ourselves to others, and there is ALWAYS someone more social than you. The problem is using the extreme life-of-the-party as the basis of comparison. I think the limitations of what it really is to be introvert are too loosely defined for most people, whether they learn languages or not. Normally such a definition would be an issue of pure semantics, but as I said I feel worried when someone truly does have the potential to take advantage of learning socially, but is simply limited by the belief that they are an introvert. If someone was truly a classic introvert, I'd feel they wouldn't even engage with other people in discussion in an online forum like this. It's not face-to-face, but this forum is social and involves others, and participating in it is an "extrovert" thing to do. If you just read the forum and reflect on what others write, then that would be more introvert. I'm not suggesting any negative connotations, I just want a more clear definition of introvert, and "I am social when it comes to talking about languages" brings you closer to the extrovert end of the scale in my book. If you put a stereotypical extreme extrovert in a situation he isn't comfortable in, after cracking a few jokes and realizing the group isn't accepting him, he may just keep to himself. That's human nature, and is less reliant on personality traits. @microsnout I also use prepared lines to get me started. Not as the basis of a conversation, but to get me into the flow. I "start" the conversation as an a shy person, but suddenly become confident. A complete personality change is too hard to request, but overcoming shyness is somewhat linked to embracing certain aspects of extrovertness. I'm not saying people *should* do it, just that it really does help for many things in life such as learning a language. Edited by irishpolyglot on 17 November 2010 at 9:16pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4994 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 15 of 59 17 November 2010 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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I consider myself an ambivert - equal parts both. I love to socialise, I'm often the first one up on the dancefloor or on the karaoke stage (even without having had as much as a single drop of alcohol), and as much as I appreciate the more "technical" aspects of languages, my language learning goals are purely social. However I'm also an analytical person who is equally happy spending time alone and doing his own thing. And as much as I love socialising, I'm not very good at it: I often suffer from shyness and/or having-nothing-to-say-syndrome and sometimes drift into my own world, and my conversational skills are... somewhat lacking, to put it politely (although I can talk for hours about something that interests me and my conversation partner). So a lot of people who know me probably think of me as an introvert, but ironically if I were a true introvert I wouldn't know most of these people in the first place.
As it applies to language learning, I love the idea of going out and having a conversation in French, but executing it is rather difficult because I find it hard enough to follow, join in, and contribute to a conversation in my native language, let alone a foreign one. I do like to think that I have the best of both worlds though - enough introversion to happily spend hours working away on my own, and enough extroversion to make me want to go out and use my skills. This very much applies to my other main interest (playing guitar) as well. Edited by garyb on 17 November 2010 at 9:37pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5258 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 16 of 59 17 November 2010 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | ||
But that is not sufficient because a complex topic of conversation has many levels of things of interest. I have been with people who share my interests but still only wish to talk of specialized aspects that they find interesting and I find boring. The question is, do you love learning new things that they find interesting even if you would rather talk of different aspects of the topic. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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