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Ayn Rand (1905 - 1982) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5141 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes  Speaks: Spanish* | Message 17 of 33 30 November 2010 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Are you familiar with Indian epistemology? Or Fichte, for that matter? I haven't read Rand's work, but what you refer to is anything but laughable. About politics, much of what goes on in Europe baffles and dismays me as much as anything you folks might find "astonishing" about the U.S. From the isolated quotes I've read from her, it seems she was a very smart, insightful and prescient woman. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6266 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 18 of 33 30 November 2010 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't want to discuss politics on this thread, that's what private messages are good for. However, it is a valid question in that it concerns the difference in cultures, and I think this thread will be moved to the cultural forum soon. So I'll be brief. What Ayn Rand argues, and what the vast majority of people in Europe can't understand, is * wealth speaks of merit * CEOs actually deserve to earn millions * the poor should be pulling themselves up by their bootstraps Especially the last idea is permeating American society, and not just Libertarians (the purest Randists) think so, while I've never heard it suggested in Europe. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5141 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 19 of 33 30 November 2010 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Have Europeans forgotten yourselves to such a degree? I think contemporary Europeans looking at what created their (dying) world would profit from revisiting Die protestantische Ethik und der Geist des Kapitalismus from Max Weber. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6266 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 20 of 33 30 November 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There are some writings that receive more attention outside of their native land than
within. Also, your argument could be made for any political philosophy at all. Countless ideas stem from European philosophers. Democracy just as well as tyranny, and radical capitalism just as well as communism. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| rapp Senior Member United States Joined 5527 days ago 129 posts - 204 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 21 of 33 01 December 2010 at 2:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I might be reading too much into this comment, but I read it as saying that libertarians are a subset of Randians, and I really don't think that is true. I would actually say it is the other way around: libertarianism is a broad category of political and economic thought of which Ayn Rand represented one sub-current. There were other thinkers in the broader libertarian sphere, such as Murry Rothbard, Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek and others, who disagreed quite strongly at times with Ayn Rand (And vice-versa. She famously denounced many of those people and separated herself from the broader movement later in her life.) I tend to think that Rand's novels are interesting polemics that kind of act like a gateway drug to libertarianism, but it is really books like The Road to Serfdom and The Constitution of Liberty that form the theoretical basis of the philosophy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6664 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 22 of 33 01 December 2010 at 5:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Peace, everyone. The discussion might be valid regarding Rand, but isn't pertinent to polyglottery. Edited by Journeyer on 01 December 2010 at 5:33am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5317 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 23 of 33 01 December 2010 at 9:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well, I don't think it's a case of not understanding, rather not agreeing. I would argue that wealth more often than not speaks of happenstance (born into rich family, or family with connections), greed, ruthlessness, willingness to ignore common decency for the sake of financial profit etc. Even if you agree that CEOs should earn more than nurses, they don't necessarily have to earn a hundred times more. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6266 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 24 of 33 01 December 2010 at 11:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You are probably right; I haven't studied libertarianism. I meant something else: Ayn Rand's philosophy has influenced the American society at large, rather than just the small percentage of people who identify as libertarians. This makes Ayn Rand an interesting author to study in order to better understand America.
Gusutafu, your argument is not with me ;-) I said "not understanding" because in Europe the rich are generally assumed to have all the vices you mentioned, when in fact they might believe themselves to be pursuing the good of all, Ayn Rand style. Ayn Rand presents some good arguments for egoism to be a virtue. Whether you agree with her logic or see fallacies is a different matter. The thing is that people in Europe generally don't just disagree, they don't understand that such arguments exist. Extreme egoism and lack of compassion for the poor is seen as a character flaw, not as a conscious choice that could be backed up by logic. Edited by Sprachprofi on 01 December 2010 at 11:25am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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