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Schliemann Method - AFRIKAANS | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5217 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes  Speaks: German*, French, English | Message 9 of 34 05 December 2010 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Great to see someone else trying this method. This reminds me that I didn't update my own thread for some time. I think the Schliemann method is good if you already know the basic vocabulary of a language or can learn it quickly due to transparency. Unfortunately, if you only know Romance and Germanic languages, Russian vocabulary has the transparency of a brick wall. This shouldn't be a problem for you with Afrikaans.
Apart from that, I think the amount of text that Schliemann claimed he learned within the time frames suggested is unrealistic. If you push too hard then you may burn out very quickly. Maybe the text learning process can be optimised, so it would be good if more people gave it a try in order to find out what works best. Schliemann didn't explain his method in great detail, so there is room for more experiments. There is no need to repeat the mistakes of others if you can make new ones. Good luck with your project! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5064 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 10 of 34 06 December 2010 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Many thanks for these kind words, OlafP. :-D As I said in my first post, your experiment with the Schliemann method has been a big inspiration for this Afrikaans-log. Hopefully I will be able to emulate at least some of the very considerable progress which you have made so far in Russian. I think you have probably had to fight against two fairly big disadvantages: firstly Russian is - wie du sagst - very untransparent for those of us who don't already have a background in Slavic languages! Secondly, I find that "Also Sprach Zarathustra" is an extremely challenging text to use for this method. I believe that even Schliemann himself used fairly 'lowbrow' popular titles such as (wenn ich mich nicht irre) a Russian translation of "The Three Musketeers"..!? Of course, I don't want to insult Deon Meyer (dessen Werk ich schätze) by suggesting that he is in any way 'lowbrow'! But I did choose him partly because his books contain a lot of fairly ordinary dialogues, and relatively little language which could be considered highly complex or philosophical, etc. Anyway, I wish you continuing success with your Russian log. (Allerdings hätte ich mir an deiner Stelle bestimmt ein anderes Buch ausgesucht - vielleicht eine Russiche Übersetzung von John Grisham, oder so..!) Edited by Romanist on 07 December 2010 at 10:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5064 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 11 of 34 06 December 2010 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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It has been mentioned that the German versions of Deon Meyer's books are produced by translating from English into German - not from the Afrikaans-originals. This got me thinking: how much of an impact does this 'second hand' translation actually have? Well, I'm not a native speaker of German, but I thought it would be kind of fun to try translating the passages from "Infanta" quoted earlier on (from the English and Afrikaans versions) into German - to see if there are any very obvious differences!? Firstly, here is my attempt to go from English to German: „Mein Name ist Benny Griessel und ich bin Alkoholiker.“ „Hallo Benny“, sagten die 32 fröhlichen Stimmen im Chor. „Gestern Abend habe ich eine ganze Flasche Jack Daniels getrunken und meine Frau geschlagen. Heute Morgen hat sie mich aus dem Hause geschmissen. Ich habe einen Tag ohne Alkohol ausgehalten. Ich bin hier, weil ich mein Saufen nicht kontrollieren kann. Ich bin hier, weil ich meine Frau, meine Kinder, und mein Leben zurückhaben will.“ Es wird Hauptkommissar Benny Griessel von der Mordkommission-Kapstadt allerdings kein Leichtes sein, sein Leben zurückzubekommen. Denn ein Vigilante-Killer läuft herum – ein ruchsichtsloser Scharfrichter, der einen persönlichen Rachefeldzug führt gegen den menschlichen Abschaum, der Kindesmisshandlungen begeht. Während die Presse schreit, Politiker ihm die Hölle heiß machen, junge unerfahrene Kollegen dumme Fehler machen, und die Zahl der Opfer ständig steigt, muss Bennie auf die drastische Maßnahme zurückgreifen, eine Falle zu stellen. Aber bei seinem Plan hat er nicht ganz mit der Liebe einer Prostituierten zu ihrem Kind, der Ruchlosigkeit des Sangrenegra-Drogenkartells oder seiner eigenen Sucht nach der Heilraft der Flasche gerechnet. (EDIT I have made a new attempt at the last paragraph above in light of Doitsujin's comment in the post below this one. Of course, I may still be be wrong!) But now here is my equally heroic attempt to go directly from Afrikaans into German: „Mein Name ist Benny Griessel und ich bin Alkoholiker.“ „Hallo Benny“, sagten die 32 fröhlichen Stimmen im Chor. „Ich habe Gestern Abend eine Flasche Jack Daniels ausgetrunken und meine Frau geschlagen. Heute Morgen hat sie mich aus dem Hause geschmissen. Ich bin jetzt einen Tag ohne Alkohol. Ich bin hier, weil ich mein Saufen nicht beherrschen kann. Ich bin hier, weil ich meine Frau, meine Kinder, und mein Leben zurückhaben will.“ Aber um sein Leben zurückzubekommen muss Hauptkommissar Benny Griessel von der Mordkommission-Kapstadt zunächst einmal den Artemis-Fall aufklären: der Vigilante, der die Todesstrafe zurückgebracht hat, der damit beschäftigt ist, Taten gegen Kindern mit einem langen Messer und erschreckender Rücksichtslosigkeit zu vergelten. Und mit schreiender Presse, mit Politikern, die Druck ausüben, mit einer Schar von ungeschickten jungen Detektiven und verschiedenen Kollegen, die ihm in den Rücken fallen, stellt Bennie eine Falle. Aber er hat nicht mit der Liebe einer Prostituierten zu ihrem Kind, dem Hass des Sangrenegro-Drogenkartells und seiner eigenen Sucht nach der Heilkraft der Flasche gerechnet.. (EDIT The last paragraph here has been changed into the suggestion made by Doitsujin in the post below this one.) I would say that there are some very marked differences - even in this short passage! Surely they could find someone who could translate directly from Afrikaans into German!? What do native speakers of German think about this? Edited by Romanist on 07 December 2010 at 10:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5102 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 12 of 34 06 December 2010 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
There are a couple of declension errors and I wouldn't use Vigilante in German, but only the following paragraph sounds a bit strange:
I'd rephrase it as follows:
(based on the Afrikaans original):
Otherwise your translations are very readable. As for the differences in the blurb text, my guess is that the English web site is simply not up-to-date.
AFAIK, Afrikaans is considered one of the smaller languages in Germany. Therefore I'm not at all surprised that they translated the English version. And since very few Afrikaans authors beside Meyer made it on the international bestseller lists, this is not likely to change anytime soon. BTW, where did you order your copy of Meyer's book from? Also it would be interesting to find out, if they translated his books for the Dutch speaking markets or if his fans simply read the Afrikaans originals. Edited by Doitsujin on 06 December 2010 at 7:23pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5064 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 13 of 34 06 December 2010 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Many thanks for the corrections, Doitsujin. :-D You know, if I only make a couple of declension errors in a German text, then I really feel like I'm doing okay! Normally I would completely screw the cases!! :-0 BTW What word would you use for "vigilante"?
I think I found it on Amazon.com about two years ago. But from what I've heard, Kalahari.net is the best place to order Afrikaans literature.
Yes, that is a very good question. I imagine most Dutch speakers would be able to read the Afrikaans original and get at least 99% of the meaning. But who knows? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5102 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 14 of 34 07 December 2010 at 12:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That's a tricky one, because there's no catch-all equivalent in German. I believe the German translator translated it as "Selbstjustiz-Killer," which you might find ironic since he replaced one English word with one German compound noun and another English word. :-) BTW, Vigilantes are usually "Bürgerwehren" or "Selbstverteidigungsgruppen" in German. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5064 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 15 of 34 07 December 2010 at 1:45am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That's interesting because I'm not sure whether the two things are really exactly the same? To my mind, the word "vigilante" implies use of extreme violence and a kind of tough disregard for rule of law, due process, etc. On the other hand, "Bürgerwehr" and "Selbstverteidigungsgruppen" seem to be a little more repectable. At any rate they seem not to have quite the same hardcore connotations as the word "vigilante". Perhaps it is a cultural thing? In the Anglo-Saxon world there is a whole folklore built up around outlaws, posses, rough-justice, froniersmen, etc. But I'm not sure whether this concept really exists in the same way in the German speaking world? Edited by Romanist on 07 December 2010 at 10:14am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5064 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 16 of 34 07 December 2010 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I don't think it was a great idea on my part to translate the Afrikaans-text into German. Before doing this I had more or less learned the Afrikaans by heart. But now all I can keep thinking of is my attempted translation in German! Argh! :-O If I use any text as a crutch, then it will have to be the English version, I think... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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