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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5647 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 9 of 45 04 January 2011 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
You may be right. But to me, the intended meaning here would be better expressed in good English as "I'm well".
I'm confused by how a "purposefully simple letter, written by a native speaker" is synonymous with a letter that contains numerous elementary punctuation errors and lacks attention to detail. It seems like the intention of the OP was for him and others to learn from his examples, and from the contributions of others. I feel strongly that native speakers on this forum have the responsibility to assist others in that language by writing it correctly. It even says that in the Forum rules. What alternative do you suggest? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Olympia Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5762 days ago 195 posts - 244 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Old English, French | Message 10 of 45 05 January 2011 at 5:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I've actually been doing this with random texts over the past week or so to practice my Portuguese. Now if you'll allow me...
Brazilian Portuguese Querido James, Eu te mando esta carta para responder à carta que você me mandou na semana passada. Eu gosto de saber que o seu trabalho segue bem e que você já se acustomou a sua nova casa em Manchester. Eu estou bem, meus estudos na universidade vão bem ainda que seja difícil aprender linguas. No agosto passado, minha família e eu fomos de férias para a Espanha e nos divertimos muito e vimos muitos lugares bonitos, nadamos no mar e gostamos de ir para Madrid e achamos que é uma cidade incrível. Conheci uma moça espanhola muito bonita chamada Maria e ainda falamos por e-mail e por telefone,e vou vê-la na Espanha no mes que vem. Eu ainda faço as mesmas atividades, e hoje na manhã eu participei em um jogo de futebol e o meu time ganhou 2-0. Eu ainda aprendo linguas e faço pugilismo. Amanhã eu vou para o cinema para assistir o novo filme Baby Fockers, eu adoro esses filmes! Você está com saudades de Londres? Espero que você possa me visitar no futuro. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Mauritz Octoglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 4849 days ago 223 posts - 325 votes Speaks: Swedish*, EnglishC2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, Esperanto, French Studies: Old English, Yiddish, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean, Portuguese, Welsh, Icelandic, Afrikaans | Message 11 of 45 09 January 2011 at 4:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I'll do my best with a Yiddish translation, albeit with Latin letters.
EDIT: And now also with Hebrew letters. Yiddish Liber James, Ikh shik dir dem briv kedey entfern dem briv vos du host mir geshikt letste vokh. Ikh bin freylekh tsu visn az alts iz gut mit dayn arbet un az du host gevoynt zikh in dayn nayem hoyz in Manchester. Ikh makh gut. Mayne shtudies geyen gut, khotsh lernen sprakhn iz shver. Letste oygust hobn ikh un mayn mishpokhe gehat a vakatsie in Shpanie. S'iz geven a shpas un mir hobn gezen a sakh sheyne pletser. Mir zenen geshvumen in dem jam un mir hobn lib gehat forn ken Madrid. Mir meynen az Madrid iz a fantastish shtot. Ikh hob getrofn a sheyne shpanishe meydl vos hot geheysn Maria un mir redn nokh per blitspost un telefon. Ikh vel zen zi in Shpanie iber a khoydesh. Ikh hob nokh di zelbike interesn. Dem morgn hob ikh geshpilt a shpil fun futbol un mayn manshaft hot gevunen mit 2-0. Ikh lern nokh shrpakhn un ikh boks zikh nokh. Morgn vel ikh geyn inem kino kedey zen dem nayem film "Baby Fockers". Ikh hob di filmen lib! Felstu London? Ikh hof az du kenst mikh bazukhn in di tsukunft, mayn chaver. ייִדיש ליבער דזשײמס, איך שיק דיר דעם בריװ כּדי ענטפֿערן דעם בריװ װאָס דו האָסט מיר געשיקט לעצטע װאָך. איך בינ פֿרעילעך צו װיסן אַז אַלץ איז גוט מיט דײַן אַרבעט און אַז דו האָסט געװױנט זיך אין דײַן נײַעם הױז אין מאַנטשעסטער. איך מאַך גוט. מײַנע שטודיעס געײען גוט, כאָטש לערנען שפּראַכן איז שװער. לעצטע אױגוסט האָבן איך און מײַן משפּחה געהאַט אַ װאַקאַטסיע אין שפּאַניע. ס׳איז געװען אַ שפּאַס און מיר האָבן געזען אַ סאַך שײנע פּלעטסער. מיר זענען געשװוּמען אין דעם ים און מיר האָבן ליב געהאַט פֿאָרן קײן מאַדריד. מיר מײנען אַז מאַדריד יז אַ פֿאַנטאַסטיש שטאָט. איך האָב געטראָפֿנ אַ שײנע שפּאַנישע מײדל װאָס האָט געהײסן מאַריאַ און מיר רעדן נאָך פּער בליצפּאָסט און טעלעפֿאָן. איך װעל זען זי אין שפּאַניע איבער אַ חודש. איך האָב נאָך די זעלביקע אינטערעסן. דעם מאָרגן האָב איך געשפּילט אַ שפּיל פֿון פֿוטבאָל און מײַן מאַנשאַפֿט האָט געװוּנען מיט 2-0. איך לערן נאָך שפּראַכן און איך באָקס זיך נאָך. מאָרגן װעל איך גײן אינעם קינאָ כּדי זען דעם נײַעם פֿילם „בײבי פֿאָקערס“. איך האָב די פֿילמען ליב! פֿעלסטו לאָנדאָן? איך האָפף אַז דו קענסט מיך באַזוכן אין דער צוקונפֿט, מײַן חבֿר. EDIT: Hm, this doesn't look too good. Is there any way to change the writing direction to right to left? Edited by Mauritz on 09 January 2011 at 4:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| CheeseInsider Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4903 days ago 193 posts - 238 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin* Studies: French, German | Message 12 of 45 09 January 2011 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I understand that Yiddish is to an extent mutually intelligible with German? How does one pronounce the "kh" in a word like "Ikh"? Is it like the German "Ich"? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Mauritz Octoglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 4849 days ago 223 posts - 325 votes Speaks: Swedish*, EnglishC2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, Esperanto, French Studies: Old English, Yiddish, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean, Portuguese, Welsh, Icelandic, Afrikaans | Message 13 of 45 09 January 2011 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Yes, that's correct. Although, I believe that the pronunciation of German ch varies while it doesn't in Yiddish. For example, "ich" and "machen" have slightly different sounds for ch while Yiddish has the same for both "ikh" and "makhn". The question mutual intelligibility is very interesting, because some Yiddish phrases may be almost identical in German while others may be completely incomprehensible. This is mostly because of the extensive borrowings from Hebrew. A sentence like "Der kholem iz nit emes" (The dream is not true) probably doesn't make that much sense to a German speaker. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6730 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 14 of 45 09 January 2011 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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ジェームズへ
先週もらった手紙の返事を送ります。ジェー ムズの仕事が順調に行っていて、マンチェス ターの新しい家に慣れてきて良かったと思い ます。 こっちも元気にしています。語学を学ぶのは 難しいけど、大学の勉強はいい感じで進んで います。 去年の８月は家族とスペインに旅行して、色 んな綺麗な場所を見たり海で泳いだりしてと ても楽しみました。マドリードは素晴らしい 街で、みんな大好きでした。私はマリアとい うすごく綺麗なスペイン人の女の子に出会っ て、今もまだ電話やメールのやり取りをして います。 僕は相変わらず、いつもの趣味を楽しんでい ます。今朝サッカーの試合をして、僕達のチ ームは２対０で勝ちました。ボクシングも外 国語の勉強も続いています。明日は映画館に 「Baby Fockers」という映画を見に行くつもりです。 ういう映画が大好きです。 ロンドンを懐かしく思っていませんか。いつ か近いうちに遊びに来れると嬉しいです。 ブライアンより Here's a Japanese version, checked by a native speaker :) This was a little awkward because I had trouble reconciling the colloquial tone and almost stream-of-consciousness structure with the certain degree of formality that Japanese letters favor. If it were an email, it would've been easier (we could just write as we would talk). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5866 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 15 of 45 16 January 2011 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Hi there. I see no one has done German yet (!) I'm no translator, so if there are modifications that can be made to make it more correct, more "German" then please feel free to change it! I'm studying the dialects. So there's three versions (great excercise!) 1.Hochdeutsch. 2. Niederdeutsch/Platt 3. Hessisch-Platt.
Lieber James, (Hochdeutsch) Ich schreibe dir diesen Brief, um auf deinen letzten Brief von voriger Wochen zu beantworten (awkward). Es freut mich, dass es dir bei deiner neuen Arbeitstelle (Arbeit) gut geht und dass du im Manchester gut eingesiedelt bist. Mir geht's gut/Alles paletti. Es läuft gut beim Studium, obwohl das Lernen von neuen Sprachen schon schwer ist. Im August waren wir (meine Familie und ich) im Urlaub in Spanien. Wir haben uns sehr genossen und wir haben viele schöne Orte gesehen. Wir sind im Meer geschwommen und wir liebten diese Stadt Madrid. Wir halten es für eine unglaubliche Stadt. Ich habe dort eine schöne Spanierin namens Maria kennengelernt. Wir reden noch miteinander entweder per Chat oder per Telefon, und ich werde sie nächsten Monat im Spanien sehen. Ich habe immer noch die gleiche Hobbies. Heute morgen habe ich ein Fußballspiel gespielt und meine Mannschaft hat gewonnen, zwei zu null. Ich lerne noch Fremdsprachen und ich boxe noch. Morgen gehe ich ins Kino um den neuen Film "Baby Fockers" anzusehen. Ich leibe diese Films! Vermisst du etwas über London? Velleicht kannst du mich bald mal besuchen, was sagst du mein Freund? Guude/Gurre James, (Hessisch-Platt) Aisch schraif dir en Bload/Bräif, um aff dain Bräif/Bload vo däi viern (voriger/vorigen) Wuche zu beantwoarde. EDIT: This first sentence really doesn't translate well into dialect and would have to be reworked by a speaker ;))Es froochd mer, doas es dir beidä Earwet (bei der Arbeit) gout gieht en dos de im Kaf (Dorf) gout zerehcht koomst. Ei joh, alleweile giehes gout bem Studium, owwer, schwier sund diese Fremdsprachen, joh! Letzte Aagest warrn mer em Auerlaab, en Spanien. Der hotts mer goud gefalle. Dos woar hot, hot schie (sehr, sehr schön) -en mer harre uhs schiene Orte gesäin. Mer sain im Meer geschwomme en mer leebe diese Madrid, gelle? Aisch harre mer sogoa ne schiene spanisches Madschje gedrofe, Maria, ean mer harre uhs mol en berrem geschwätze. (ein bisschen geschwätzt). mer schwätze als bem Chat/Telefon. Nachstem Moij säin mer uhs wäjer. (sehen wir uns wieder). Hobby’s hoat baal jeder, ean aich huu e re aach so zwo owwer drei. Heud moaje hu aisch e Fußballspiel gespield e däi Mannschaft hoat gewonne, zwä zou no. Aisch lehre no Fremdsprache/Hochdeutsch ;) en als'n als boxe aisch. Moaje gieh isch ins Kino, do säisch de no Film "Baby Fockers". Mer gefalle diese Filme, gelle. (Here's where I have to cut it short since it falls on Redewendungen/Mundart that I don't know, or can't piece together.) Finally, Niederdeutsch: (This is just a taste of Platt from a humble learner and there are some discrepancies, I'm sure.) Leber James, Ik schruiwe di un Breev, dat of dien Breev to beantwoorden. Ik freie mik, do es di glant un godgahn. Mi gahns good. Es lopt good bi Studium, aver likekers Spraake sünd figeliensch. Austmaand weer'n wi im Urlaub in Spanien. Wi häbbe/häwwe im See swommen un wi leeben di Stadt Madrid. Wi häbbe us god genotten, un wi häbbe schöne Stee seuhn. Do ik heef ne schöne Mäken/Diern wat heten Maria kennenlihre. Wi schnacken noch mit'nanner entweder per Nettbreef orr per tippschnacken un ik wer se token Maand in Spanien seuhn. Ik heef datsülbe Hobbys. Famuaren war ik un Footballspeel speelt un mien Kru hät gewunnen. twee to null (oder geht gegen null = gering). Ik lehre bobento Spraaken un Boxen. Morgentied goh ik ins Kiekkassen/Filmhus wat de nu Film "Baby Fockers" to seuhn. Ik leebe Filme! Fehlt jau London? (Fehlt euch London) Bekiekt mich jüst mol! (Besuch mich doch mal.) Edited by Sunja on 17 January 2011 at 10:09am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Renaçido Triglot Newbie Canada Joined 4865 days ago 34 posts - 60 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Latin | Message 16 of 45 17 January 2011 at 4:32am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I also don't see what could be wrong in using run-on sentences with less punctuation than in standard usage, considering the informal nature of the letter. When I write informal e-mails and letters to my friends or relatives in El Salvador, I certainly prefer to go for a more colloquial style of writing than that Spanish I'd use in essays, even if it involves breaking standard usage of grammar, vocabulary or punctuation... In any case, rules are not universal, e.g. English certainly uses quotes a lot more than Spanish. (For example, in literary Spanish, it's more common to show dialogue without quotes: —"Who is Jon writing that letter to?" Julie asked. —"I don't know," Martin replied, "to one of his friends from Spain, I think." —¿A quién le está escribiendo Jon esa carta? preguntó Julia —No sé, respondió Martin, a uno de sus amigos de España, creo.) -------------------------------------- My corrections to the letters written in Spanish: Jon1991 My comments are mostly about grammar and vocabulary since I can't judge your spelling, it's clear you were limited by your English keyboard layout. :) To be honest, this is more or less what my informal letters and those of Spanish speakers in general look like, that is, lacking many acute accents (although not all of them =p) as well as the opening question and exclamation marks ¿ and ¡. (Nonetheless, I'm adding them for the sake of language practice.) Overall, good job, the letter is completely understandable, but mistakes regarding gender agreement and excessive use of subject pronouns (yo, tú) were the ones that mostly stood out. Also, the use of "usted" (and "su"), the formal pronouns. Okay, it's not a mistake, but the general tone of the letter doesn't suggest that you'd want to sound this formal. :)
Querido James:
Te envío esta carta para responder a la carta que me enviaste la semana pasada. Estoy feliz de saber que tu trabajo va bien y que se han asentado en su nueva casa en Manchester.
Estoy bien, mis estudios universitarios van bien, aunque aprender idiomas es difícil. El agosto pasado yo y mi familia nos fuimos a España de vacaciones. Nos gustó mucho y vimos muchos lugares hermosos, nadamos en el mar y nos encantó ir a Madrid y creemos que es una ciudad maravillosa y agradable. Yo conocí a una hermosa chica española que se llama María y todavía hablamos por correo electrónico y teléfono, me voy a verla el próximo mes.
Todavía tengo las mismas aficiones, esta mañana he jugado un partido de fútbol y mi equipo ganó 2-0. Todavía aprendo idiomas y todavía practico el boxeo. Mañana, me voy al cine a ver la nueva película "Baby Fockers", ¡me encantan esas películas!
¿Echas de menos la vida en Londres? Espero que puedas visitarme en el futuro próximo tío. I'll call it a day. Biscotti, your letter is coming in my next post. :) Edited by Renaçido on 18 January 2011 at 3:45am 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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