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沒有一個中文的論壇為什麼? | ||
Tags: Mandarin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| lanni Senior Member China Joined 6277 days ago 102 posts - 156 votes  Speaks: Mandarin* Studies: English | Message 9 of 50 05 February 2011 at 5:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You are right. When it comes to written Chinese, to literature, be it thousands years ago or ten years earlier, there is only one issue, 汉字（simplified/traditional Chinese charaters）and 汉文学 （Chinese literature）. mandarin = (Beijing accent + Northern Chinese dialect) · classics of modern Chinese literature = officialized Chinese dialect = universally spoken Chinese across China = 普通话(pǔtōnghuà) Cantonese = Cantonese dialect · classics of modern Chinese literature = a Chinese dialect spoken mainly in Guangdong province and Hongkong = 广东话(guǎngdōnghuà) Confucius said "言之无文，行而不远". If I could highjack this famous words of our old man's, I would take "文" as "written words" so as to understand the sentence as "Spoken stuff can not go far without putting it in written form." Thanks to modern digital recording techniques. For those who are learning Chinese calligraphy, there are various artistic penmanship forms of each character to get familiar with, mostly for historical instead of regional reason. Edited by lanni on 05 February 2011 at 6:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tangerine Newbie England Joined 5225 days ago 19 posts - 38 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 10 of 50 05 February 2011 at 6:56am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, I believe so. I study mandarin, not cantonese, but from what I understand (having talked to cantonese students and native speakers) although they are both based on the same character-system, there are multiple differences in terms of grammar and lexical use (vocab) as well of course as pronunciation. It's not just a case of pronouncing the same character in a different way, often they're actually saying a completely different word. I would imagine that if you understood one and read the other you would get about 90%+ of it, but there might be times where you simply not understand. Just a guess, other users like Ari will be able to confirm this... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| strikingstar Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5187 days ago 292 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Cantonese, Swahili Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written) | Message 11 of 50 05 February 2011 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
From Wikipedia: "Cantonese is unique among non-Mandarin regional languages in having a written colloquial standard, used in Hong Kong and overseas, with a large number of unofficial characters for words particular to this dialect." Also, it's not quite as simple as a change in pronunciation. Many things that are said in one particular way in Mandarin cannot be said in the same way in Cantonese (and vice versa.) Here are a few examples: 1) like (Eng) - xi huan (Mandarin) - zhong yee (Canto) 2) dislike - bu xi huan - mmm zhong yee 3) eat - chi - sek 4) drink - he - yum 5) why - wei shen me - dim gai 6) what - shen me - mat yeh 7) how - zhen me - dim miong 8) where - na li - bin dou 9) who - shui - bin gor 10) here/there - zhe li/na li - yee dou/gor dou 11) dirty - an zhang - lat tat/la zha 12) waste - lang fei - sai yang 13) potato - ma ling shu - shuet zai 14) rain - xia yu - lok yu 15) tired - lei - gui 16) night - wan shang - ye man 17) see - kan dao - tai dou 18) agree - da ying - yeng seng 19) otherwise - bu ran - wah zheh 20) shut up - bi zhui - sao sang I think 20 examples should be enough. As you can see, the words are very different. Sentence structure is oftentimes very different too. Most of my friends who speak Mandarin cannot understand me when I speak to them in Cantonese. This is due to word choice and sentence structure in addition to the differences in pronunciation. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| lanni Senior Member China Joined 6277 days ago 102 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Mandarin* Studies: English | Message 12 of 50 06 February 2011 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I can easily think of corresponding Chinese words written in Chinese characters of 11/20 of the word list. 1) like (Eng) - xi huan (Mandarin) - zhong yee (Canto) 中意(zhōngyì) 2) dislike - bu xi huan - mmm zhong yee 不中意(bùzhōngyì) ，in some local dialects, 不switches to 没 pronounced as "mu", eg. 没事(músì) 3) eat - chi - sek 塞 (sāi) In colloquial mandarin, 塞 can be a rude verb meaning "to eat", pronounced as "sēi" 4) drink - he - yum 饮 (yǐn) 6) what - shen me - mat yeh 么邪(mayé), 邪 is an ancient way of showing questioning manner. 11) dirty - an zhang - lat tat/la zha 邋遢 (lāta) 拉杂 (lāzá) 腌臜 (āza) , I read this word in 《水浒传》（written more than 600 years ago） 13) potato - ma ling shu - shuet zai I don't think it counts. I never say potato in Chinese as 马铃薯(mǎlíngshǔ)，it is the bookish name, I say 土豆(tǔdòu) as a northerner. So southerners must also have other nicknames for potato that I have no idea. 14) rain - xia yu - lok yu 落雨(luòyǔ) 16) night - wan shang - ye man 夜晚 (yèwǎn) 18) agree - da ying - yeng seng 应声(yīngshēng) 19) otherwise - bu ran - wah zheh 反之(fǎnzhī)，e.g. "反之亦然"（vice versa） 否则 (fǒuzé) Can I say mandarin consonant "f" systemically corresponds to cantonese consonant "w" in this case? 20) shut up - bi zhui - sao sang 收声 (shōushēng) Beat me with the following 8 words 5) why - wei shen me - dim gai 7) how - zhen me - dim miong 8) where - na li - bin dou 9) who - shui - bin gor 10) here/there - zhe li/na li - yee dou/gor dou 12) waste - lang fei - sai yang 15) tired - lei - gui 17) see - kan dao - tai dou 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5099 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 13 of 50 08 February 2011 at 2:30am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Cantonese is related to Tai-Kadai somehow but I think it got sinicized.
半lang kang is a Cantonese vocabulary that describes "being stuck in halfway". No body can write this in Chinese character. http://win2003.chi.cuhk.edu.hk/hanyu/chetio.asp?chetio=17230 But I finally found that "lang kang" is a Tai-Kadai vocabulary which means "middle". 
I was amazed when I read this Thai-learning book. "This" in Thai is "ne" 
"This" in Cantonese is "nei" or "ni" , which is always written as 呢. "how to do" in Thai is "tam yang ngai" 
In Cantonese is "dim yeung x" 點樣X X can be jo做 kau 搞 點樣搞 dim yeung kau looks like Thai "tam yang ngai".... "Why" in Thai is "tam mai" 
Why in Cantonese is "dim gai" 點解 "Not" in Thai is "mai" 
"Not" in Cantonese can be "mai" too. 咪郁 mai yuk = Don't move. 咪嘈 mai chou = Don't make noise But maybe this one is of Chinese origin as I see this similar usage in Taiwanese. Even comparative sentence in Thai is similar to Cantonese. 
Mandarin:他比你高 ta bi ni gao (he compare you tall, literally) Cantonese: 佢高過你 keoi kou gwo nei (he tall over you) Thai: kao soong gwa kun (It sounds like 佢崇過君, which would make it "he tall over you") Edited by jsun on 08 February 2011 at 2:39am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Janna Newbie China Joined 4995 days ago 7 posts - 8 votes Studies: Cantonese | Message 14 of 50 07 April 2011 at 6:10am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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我是中国人，但是想学习英语。如果有人想学 汉语而且英语好可加我，我们相互学习
MSN janna_j@live.cn Skype rainbamboo3 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Roberta Blanco Newbie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4874 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English Studies: Mandarin | Message 15 of 50 05 August 2011 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Janna, 你好。我是巴西人。我的普通话是糟糕，但是 我的英语很好。我们对相帮助的。
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| maximus242 Newbie Canada Joined 4822 days ago 9 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 16 of 50 06 October 2011 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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你好, 我学破通话
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