Perfectionism (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Perfectionism
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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rafaelrbp
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
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Speaks: Portuguese*, Spanish, English, French, Italian
Studies: German

Message 9 of 19

11 February 2011 at 5:22pm | IP Logged

As you stated, the language is not going to be finished anytime, so you just start another language, while maintaining the previous ones. As Arguelles once said, a language is a lifetime companion, so you should not leave it behind.

The line you need to draw varies from person to person. I'm satisfied to start a new language when I can listen to radio or TV, and read books or newspapers without using the dictionary too much.

And studying new languages is a great way to understand how the others you know are similar (or not). For instance, now I'm learning German, and I can see how close Italian, French and Spanish are.

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Bao
Diglot
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Germany
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Message 10 of 19

11 February 2011 at 5:23pm | IP Logged

I just wanted to remind you that perfectionism doesn't only mean to strive for what is perceived as the best possible performance, but to define one's self-worth by whether one can attain said best possible performance, or not.
Someone striving for excellence (mostly) will do what is necessary to safely reach the level they have in mind, someone with adaptive perfectionism will do significantly more than what is necessary to read that level, and somebody with mal-adaptive perfectionism will give their best to avoid having to actually perform. Of course, those behaviour pattern can all be present in a single person. Which one is prevalent shows in situations where the pressure is high and one's experience sparse.

Edited by Bao on 11 February 2011 at 11:25pm
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Ester
Groupie
Joined 5477 days ago
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Speaks: Modern Hebrew

Message 11 of 19

11 February 2011 at 6:38pm | IP Logged

Thank you everybody for your response (keep them coming!).

Bao wrote:

I just wanted to remind you that perfectionism doesn't only mean to strive for what is perceived as the best possible performance, but to define one's self-worth by whether one can attain said best possible performance, or not.
Someone striving for excellence (mostly) will do what is necessary to safely reach the level they have in maind, someone with adaptive perfectionism will do significantly more than what is necessary to read that level, and somebody with mal-adaptive perfectionism will give their best to avoid having to actually perform. Of course, those behaviour pattern can all be present in a single person. Which one is prevalent shows in situations where the pressure is high and one's experience sparse.

You have a point. Honestly, I didn't think so much about various possible shades of perfectionism (I didn't know they have names), so I may have expressed myself poorly. What I had in mind is a dose of perfectionism which doesn't "block" you from any performance, but which still doesn't allow you to look at a relatively finished project and say that it's really finished, and which makes you constantly want to keep on polishing a surface which is already shining. But to you, it's not shining "enough".

Numerodix also brings up a valid point: the other way round is just as a legitimate choice, one can consciously choose the quality over the quantity. I guess that my problem is that I'd like my level of each language to be distinct (not only good, but distinct) while having a certain breadth (not limiting myself to Italian and Hebrew but adding several more languages).
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Thatzright
Diglot
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Finland
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Speaks: Finnish*, English
Studies: French, Swedish, German, Russian

Message 12 of 19

11 February 2011 at 7:42pm | IP Logged

ReneeMona wrote:

I have a love-hate relationship with my perfectionism. Like you described, it helps me to stay focused because I hate not finishing something but it also tends to run away with me. I still wonder "why am I learning French when my English still sucks!" and I find it very hard to focus on more than one target language at the same time. I envy people who seem to be able to hop from one language to another and just have fun with all of them without worrying about their progress. As soon as I spend more than a couple of minutes on another language I feel guilty because I'm supposed to be studying French.

My perfectionism also blocks me in a lot of ways because I've always had an annoying habit of wanting to be the best without having to work hard for it. This is obviously an impossible goal but throughout my life I've given up on things or decided not to even try something simply because I could not stomach the sense of failure I got from it. Those who don't try never look foolish.

That's actually what I like best about language learning; nobody does it perfectly on the first try. Even the most accomplished polyglot is going to make mistakes in any new language he undertakes. It's a process of learning from your mistakes and if you're not willing to get in there and allow yourself to be fallible, than you're just not going to get there.

Now as for your question. What keeps me from spending the rest of my life perfecting my English is that as much as I like the outcome of that, I'm pretty sure I would hate the process and since the goal is unattainable anyway, I might as well force myself to give it up already and start on something else. It still bothers me when I think about leaving my English "unfinished" but by now I've shifted a considerable amount of my perfectionism onto French so the thought of giving it up is completely unacceptable.

I *think* you might be going a little overboard there...
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Caitlin
Newbie
Canada
Joined 5057 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: French, Japanese

Message 13 of 19

11 February 2011 at 9:37pm | IP Logged

I also think that excellence probably means different things for different people. For myself, I try to define it as 'feeling comfortable in a language in a non-technical situation'. If I can carry on an interesting conversation without major mistakes or pauses, and understand a lot of media in the language, then I would feel free to move on.
However, it is not always easy to let go of the belief that you should just get a little better first. I have struggled with perfectionism my whole life, and still often feel the desire to be the best or achieve unrealistic goals. At these times I find it helpful to trick my perfectionism. Instead of directing my desire for success at 'finishing' a language, I tell myself, "I will be the best at defining and setting a reasonable goal", or "I will focus intensely on the enjoyment I get from reading an article, not on any mistakes I might have made". Then my perfectionist drive can be focused in a more useful direction.
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leosmith
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United States
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Studies: Tagalog

Message 14 of 19

12 February 2011 at 2:29am | IP Logged

M. Medialis wrote:

As the old banjoist said:

I don't strive for perfection anymore. I strive for excellence. There is always more to do.

Ooh...I love deliverance! Was that before or after he
said he got a real pretty mouth, ain't he?
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psy88
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United States
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Studies: Spanish*, Japanese, Latin, French

Message 15 of 19

12 February 2011 at 2:31am | IP Logged

St Augustine said "The Perfect is the enemy of the Good"
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Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
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Message 16 of 19

13 February 2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged

psy88 wrote:

St Augustine said "The Perfect is the enemy of the Good"

I have used this quote weekly,without ever knowing it came from St. Augustine. Thanks!

As for the original question: I guess that what stops me from going into the "outer space" of a language, is my voracity of the others. I feel I know English fairly well, and am comfortable using it in most situations, but I do of course know that what I know, is perhaps 10% of what I could know. On the other hand it is 98 % of what I need to know in order to function, so I just settle for that.

And I have never understood why it should be a problem to know just a little of a language. Did you ever hear of anyone not studying history because they did not immediately know the 8th century history of Myanmar?

I feel joy and happiness at each new word I learn. I also sometimes feel like an idiot for taking so long to learn Russian, but as most of my friends point out to me, I get points for intent!

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