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10,000 hours of input

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
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Akatsuki
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 Message 1 of 60
12 February 2011 at 3:53pm | IP Logged 
I'm sure everyone has heard about the need of (at least) 10,000 hours of input before reaching native like (or even advanced fluency) proficiency. Many of you may have heard about All Japanese All The Time (AJATT) and may know that the guy who pulled it off (Japanese fluency in 18 months) went through these 10,000 hours in 18 months, listening to Japanese from 18 to 24 hours a day.

My question is, are these 10,000 hours effective (as in to develop the brain) only when squeezed in the shortest time period possible, or are they still (as) useful if the input is spread throughout the years?
For example, will I gain more if I squeeze 10,000 hours in 18 months or if I have the same amount of input throughout 5 or 6 years?

Edited by Akatsuki on 12 February 2011 at 3:54pm

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aloysius
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 Message 2 of 60
12 February 2011 at 6:27pm | IP Logged 
The thread on "time management" might give you some interesting input on this subject, although it doesn't specifically deal with input but with language learning in general.

ProfArguelles wrote:
If you can plan your learning long-term, it is actually much more effective to study in small doses with systematic regularity than it is to study in burst of concentrated intensity. If you are in a hurry to get to the practical use of your language, then this is the kind of price (1080 hours) you will have to pay to get to it; however, if you can apportion these hours out over a slower but steadier pace – and if you can study overall with a different mindset – you may well find that you do not actually need all of them. A good number of the hours required in intensive training are in effect consumed by the intensity of the training itself and not by the actual learning process.


//aloysius

Edited by aloysius on 12 February 2011 at 6:27pm

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Cainntear
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 Message 3 of 60
12 February 2011 at 8:20pm | IP Logged 
Akatsuki wrote:
I'm sure everyone has heard about the need of (at least) 10,000 hours of input before reaching native like (or even advanced fluency) proficiency.

10,000 hours is bad science. Ignore it.
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Bill_Sage667
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 Message 4 of 60
13 February 2011 at 12:00am | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
Akatsuki wrote:
I'm sure everyone has heard about the need of (at
least) 10,000 hours of input before reaching native like (or even advanced fluency)
proficiency.

10,000 hours is bad science. Ignore it.


When you say that, do you mean it takes much longer than that? Or shorter?
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JPike1028
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 Message 5 of 60
13 February 2011 at 12:58am | IP Logged 
I do not think that it is dependent on a short time frame, but I think it is dependent on the quality of the work you
are doing.
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lingoleng
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 Message 6 of 60
13 February 2011 at 1:02am | IP Logged 
Bill_Sage667 wrote:
Cainntear wrote:
Akatsuki wrote:
I'm sure everyone has heard about the need of (at
least) 10,000 hours of input before reaching native like (or even advanced fluency)
proficiency.

10,000 hours is bad science. Ignore it.


When you say that, do you mean it takes much longer than that? Or shorter?

Much longer. For me. Much shorter. For you. And learning how to play the piano took my dog 20 487 hours, and he is still a really bad pianist. So it depends. It is a shame how much time I wasted training and supervising my dog. My cat, which is much smarter, learned how to run away from the piano in just 2 hours, another sign of her intellectual superiority and mature wisdom.
Sorry, just kidding. It is just a number, like 3 months (fluent in ...). Or seven days
(the world was built in ...). Taking these numbers too literally makes no sense.

Edit: removed an unnecessarily provocative word.
Addition: This 10 000 hour rule, observation, statement is just an arbitrary phrase without any deeper meaning. We already knew that learning something well needs some time, and now someone, a journalist, has come up and attributed a number to this "some time". It is catchy, but nothing my grandma would have been excited about.

Edited by lingoleng on 13 February 2011 at 2:06pm

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Akatsuki
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 Message 7 of 60
13 February 2011 at 1:49am | IP Logged 
I'm not asking if 10,000 hours are enough to become fluent. I'm asking whether one can become fluent or highly proficient without having at least 10,000 hours of input. I, by no means, want to claim that A or B only need 10,000 hours to achieve native like proficiency.
I'm just trying to start a discussion here, so give me your thoughts please!
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leosmith
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 Message 8 of 60
13 February 2011 at 2:23am | IP Logged 
That depends. Is your definition of fluent or highly proficient the state one reaches after 10,000 hours of
input
? If it is, then the answer is no. If not, the answer is maybe. Hope that helps.


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