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Is Tagalog dying? | ||
Tags: Tagalog | Language Importance | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 5832 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 1 of 56 23 February 2011 at 5:52am | IP Logged | |||||
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The more and more I learn this language, and the more I become acquainted with the language situation on the Philippines, the more depressed I am because I have realized a startling fact;
I have discovered in learning this language that few people Filipinos around me actually speak it correctly, know extensive vocabulary (or even some basic vocabulary) and generally are able to speak it without resorting to "Taglish" (code switching between Tagalog and English). It seems the only people who really speak correct Tagalog are two individuals who are older, and grew up around the Manila region. In short, Taglish seems to be devouring Filipino (Tagalog with added loan words) as the lingua franca, and people prefer to speak either Taglish or English amongst themselves, not to mention with me. I am honestly shocked. I was even more shocked to learn that in the Philippines, some kids are now being raised as NATIVE English speakers and then having to learn "Tagalog" (actually Taglish) later on. Most popular media seems to be in English or Taglish, the Philippine internet is mostly in English. I have been constantly accosted on my silliness for learning Tagalog, as if people have already written off as a dead language. Is it dying? What will happen to it? What happens in general to so a language devoured by another far more dominant language and constant code-switching? A new dialect of English? As a side note, I know that languages always change so the word "dying" is polemic. I realize that English is a combination of many other languages so I don't want to be lectured on that. I simply want opinions on the future of this, and languages like it that are being trampled by English without judging whether it is natural or not. minor edits made to clarify Edited by irrationale on 23 February 2011 at 7:00am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5600 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 2 of 56 23 February 2011 at 7:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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I am aware of this situation you're describing, but I think the problems are too
systemic/endemic to cure. I would assume that most Filipinos you've talk to are US residents, or mostly those you've meet have 'good enough' English that they have enough confidence to talk to you. If they've grown up in USA, then they wouldn't be fluent in Filipino. Most Filipinos don't value much their languages by passing it to the next generation. If they were born in the Philippines, then there will be other complications: 1) Filipino is not the native language of the majority (70%+) of Filipinos in the Philippines. Some of these people have great pride in their own native languages as well, so would rather talk to you in English, or would mix their English with only a few Filipino words that they know of if talking to someone who talks Tagalog. They would not spend a great deal of effort learning Filipino, as that is nothing more than Tagalog, which is being foisted on them. 2) The Tagalog of well-off urbanites, especially in Metro Manila, is heavily Anglicized. This is because Filipino/Tagalog does not possess the technical vocabulary that English has and the language commission has not come up with any equivalent technical vocabulary. And this borrowing happens not just for technical words but also for common everyday words, because English is the medium of instruction of almost all schools, thus Filipinos have been trained to use English to express themselves intellectually. Business is conducted in English. Books, movies, and laws are mostly in English. They would only switch to Tagalog if the expression is an untranslatable cultural artifact. Most rich Filipinos have colonial mentality too and fixated with English. Most of the these rich Filipinos would not use Filipino even if it has all those technical lexicon because it is the language of the masses. They don't want to be like the masses. As one beauty contestant put it, she only talks Tagalog with the maids. or chauffeurs. And this mentality is trickling to the masses. Also, the Philippines has the largest call-center industry in the world, bigger than India, and these are mostly located in big cities and uses English. Being employed in this industry is an "in" thing. Heaps of young people aspire to break into this industry. And this industry continues to grow in double digits. So you can see that the whole system makes English dominate the other native languages. This is why Filipinos switches into English most of the time, because they are simply unable or wouldn't want to speak straight Filipino. 3) Tagalog spoken outside of these areas and in the lower social strata gets less and less English admixture the farther you move out. They can speak it correctly, but would have limited vocabulary outside of what's commonly used in their daily life, say 5,000 more or less words? What's the more likely future? I think Philippines will have another creole language. It has a Spanish creole (Chavacano) and now it will have an English creole (Taglish). How to stop this? Remove English from being an official language. That is unthinkable though since Filipinos will suddenly find that they have neglected their own for far too long, that they can't walk without those crutches. In one sense, the Philippines is still an American colony. Too bad most Filipinos are oblivious to it. Am I Filipino? Yes, but I strive to speak my native language as much as I can with as little borrowing as I can, but sorry, it's not Tagalog. Can I speak Tagalog without code-switching? No, but I can write Tagalog without code-switching, provided I have a bilingual dictionary. Edited by Raчraч Ŋuɲa on 23 February 2011 at 7:41am 24 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5600 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 3 of 56 23 February 2011 at 10:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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I forgot one more reason.
4) Taglish is the recourse of Filipinos whose native language is not English, not good in it yet want to emulate (or pretend to belong with) the rich Filipinos who speak English natively or pretend to be highly educated. Since they're not good in English, they would substitute Tagalog words where they don't know how to express themselves in English. This is called a "pa-sosyal" or "pa-conio" Taglish. This is rampant among celebrities and some mediamen who are valued more for their looks. And since media and showbiz personalities are popular,the rest of the masses ape them, especially teens and young adults who later become these showbiz/media personalities. Taglish is the direct result of having 2 official languages. Tagalog used only at home, English at school or office. People then mix up these languages. Edited by Raчraч Ŋuɲa on 23 February 2011 at 10:56am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5614 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 4 of 56 23 February 2011 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Is there a difference between the terms Tagalog and Filipino? I was interested to read about the call centres. In the UK most call centres are now based in India. Which countries do the Philipine call centres serve? The US? Australia?
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| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 5832 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 5 of 56 23 February 2011 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Great post Raчraч Ŋuɲa. I have a really hard time getting people to explain exactly what is going on with Taglish in the Philippines as I suppose it must be a sensitive topic.
I am really wondering how I am going to move forward in this language. It seems that the advanced level of this language is basically English, so I am really wondering if learning old tagalog (or even Filipino) vocab is a total waste of time apart from reading literature, which I would like to do. As you said, intellectual concepts are discussed in English. And suppose if someone wants to learn Filipino to speak conversationally, should they be told that "there is no Filipino" and it's best to learn "Taglish"? Just forget it and speak English? I guess this sort of situation holds for many other "ish"s around the world, but this case is different because Taglish is being perpetuated by the media, correct? Thus the situation is different from say, Modern Standard Arabic which is being maintained through official sources. I find the fact that politicians speak English in the Philippines simply astounding. Is anyone else here in a predicament like this with any other language that is devolving into a dialect of another?
Not to be rude, but this info is can be easily googled. Please don't hijack my thread. Edited by irrationale on 23 February 2011 at 12:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5793 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 6 of 56 23 February 2011 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
While he could have googled it, I think the answer is actually quite relevant to the thread. Tagalog is a term taken from Tagalog, and says it's the language spoken by a particular people. As I understand it, Filipino is a politically motivated renaming of Tagalog (in its standardised form). I say "politically motivated" as it was (like rebranding "langue d'oeil" as "français") an attempt to impose a single language on a linguistically diverse country. English isn't always a rejection of mother-tongue, but a rejection of the imposition of a single regional mother-tongue over other regional tongues. The same thing can be seen in India, where the nationalists tried to use Hindi to displace English after independence. Speakers of other languages (particularly the Dravidian languages in the south) have continued to use English in official circles as a truly regionally-neutral common language. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4855 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 7 of 56 23 February 2011 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have worked for Nokia. Our call center for Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, English speaking Pacific islands, and the English speaking Caribbean countries was also in the Phillipines. And offtopic question: has anybody information what is the average wage in a Phillipin call center? Edited by maxval on 23 February 2011 at 9:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5614 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 8 of 56 24 February 2011 at 2:14am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, I could have googled it, but I thought it would be more interesting to get an explanation from somebody on the forum who might have a more personal or insightful explanation of the linguistic situation in the Philippines. Instead I got a snub. 13 persons have voted this message useful |
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