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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Djouks Bilingual Pentaglot Newbie France Joined 4805 days ago 23 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, Breton*, Serbo-Croatian, English, Spanish Studies: Turkish, Kurdish | Message 1 of 10 06 April 2011 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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In some languages, there are very specific words for "aunt" and "uncle". They use different words for "the brother of my father", "the brother of my sister", "the sister of my father"... "the wife of the brother of my father" etc...
I never managed to remember who was who while learning Serbian, and now I see that I'll have the same problem with kurdish (do you know other languages that have the same system ?). My question is: does one of you have a good memory technic to remember all those specific family words ? I tried to link the words with my own family members, but it didn't work, I couldn't remember. Thank you for your help :-) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6969 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 10 07 April 2011 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||
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When learning Slovak I drew a family tree (basically grandparents, parents, reference generation and next generation) a couple of times and then expressed it as a chart on Excel (filling in cells and drawing lines/borders). I've looked at it periodically since to get the terms to stick, and by and large I have had no problems keeping the terms separate when restricted to a typical extended family (don't ask me about uncles or aunts who are second-degree or further!)
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| Andrew C Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom naturalarabic.com Joined 5003 days ago 205 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written) | Message 3 of 10 07 April 2011 at 1:03am | IP Logged | ||
Arabic has the same system - paternal uncle is 3amm and maternal uncle khaal. I used to have big problems remembering which was which, but now I don't, yet I can't say how I learned it. I think it must have just eventually gone in after lots and lots of exposure to it e.g. from stories, films. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 5955 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 4 of 10 07 April 2011 at 2:04am | IP Logged | ||
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Persian also has this same system, which should be no surprise since it and Kurdish are both Iranian languages. The terms are:
maternal aunt: خاله (xâle) paternal aunt: عمه ('amme) maternal uncle: دايى (dâyi) paternal uncle: عمو ('amu) In addition to drilling them, I also used to link the terms to the names of specific family members. So I would think "آنا خاله" (Ânnâ xâle) for my mother's sister named Anna, and "ديو عمو" (Deyv 'amu) for my father's brother named Dave, for example. I'm curious, does Kurdish also have eight words for "cousin" like Persian does? In Persian you form the words by putting either "son/boy" (پسر - pesar) or "daughter/girl" (دختر - doxtar) before the name of the appropriate aunt or uncle. So the daughter of your maternal uncle would be دختر دايى (doxtar dâyi). To finish answering your question about which other languages have a system like this, Swahili does (mbiomba, shangazi, mjomba, amu), as does Swedish (moster, faster, morbror, farbror). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| GREGORG4000 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5336 days ago 307 posts - 479 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French | Message 5 of 10 07 April 2011 at 2:55am | IP Logged | ||
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From "Integrated Korean":
아저씨 uncle 아주머니 aunt 큰아버지 uncle (who is one's father's older brother) 큰어머니 aunt (who is the wife of one's father's older brother) 작은아버지 uncle (who is one's father's younger brother) 작은어머니 aunt (who is the wife of one's father's younger brother) 삼촌 uncle (who is one's father's younger brother) 숙모 aunt (who is the wife of one's father's younger brother) 외삼촌 uncle (who is one's mother's brother) 외숙모 aunt (who is the wife of one's mother's brother) 고모 aunt (who is one's father's sister) 이모 aunt (who is one's mother's sister) Edited by GREGORG4000 on 07 April 2011 at 3:03am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| strikingstar Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4986 days ago 292 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Cantonese, Swahili Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written) | Message 6 of 10 07 April 2011 at 6:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Try this on for size.
In Mandarin: father = 爸爸/父亲/爹 (traditional) mother = 妈妈/母亲/娘 (traditional) older brother = 哥哥 older sister = 姐姐 younger brother = 弟弟 younger sister = 妹妹 paternal grandfather = 公公/爷爷 paternal grandfather = 婆婆/奶奶 maternal grandfather = 外公 maternal grandmother = 外婆 father's older brother = 伯伯 father's older brother's wife = 伯母 father's younger brother = 叔叔 father's younger brother's wife = 婶婶 father's sister = 姑姑 father's sister's husband = 姑丈 mother's brother = 舅舅 mother's brother's wife = 舅妈 mother's sister = 阿姨 mother's sister's husband = 姨夫 father's brother's children = 堂哥/姐/弟/妹 all other cousins = 表哥/姐/弟/妹 And I haven't even gone into the nephews/nieces, grandkids, in-laws etc yet. Hmm, I'm wondering if languages help shape cultures. It seems that (East) Asian languages have a huge emphasis on familial relations. At the same time, these cultures espouse the Confucian ethics of 忠孝礼仪, where 孝 refers to filial piety. In more traditional families, leaving your parents in retirement homes could be considered shameful. In the West, it is considered as freedom from the kids as well as not being a burden to them. Food for thought? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Djouks Bilingual Pentaglot Newbie France Joined 4805 days ago 23 posts - 32 votes Speaks: French*, Breton*, Serbo-Croatian, English, Spanish Studies: Turkish, Kurdish | Message 7 of 10 07 April 2011 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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Wow! I have to consider myself very happy with kurdish when I see how precise it can be in Chinese or Korean ! Chung and Ellasevia, I think I'll try to make a mix of your two methods, as I said before, I had tried to link them with the names of my own family, but I have no extended family, and maybe I didn't practice enough, but I couldn't remember.
I don't know about cousins in kurdish, I just began the study of this language, and haven't encountered this word yet. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 5955 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 8 of 10 07 April 2011 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | ||
Those Korean and Mandarin terms are insane!
This is also true of Japanese, but it doesn’t go into nearly the specifics that Korean and Chinese apparently do. Instead it focuses more on conveying the required politeness, according to whether the person is your own relative or another person’s. family (one’s own) = 家族 [kazoku] family (another person’s) = ご家族 [gokazoku] father (one’s own) = 父 [chichi] father (another person’s) = お父さん [otōsan] mother (one’s own) = 母 [haha] mother (another person’s) = お母さん [okāsan] son (one’s own) = 息子 [musuko] son (another person’s) = 息子さん [musukosan], 坊ちゃん [botchan] daughter (one’s own) = 娘 [musume] daughter (another person’s) = 娘さん [musumesan] older brother (one’s own) = 兄 [ani] older brother (another person’s) = お兄さん (oniisan) younger brother (one’s own) = 弟 [otōto] younger brother (another person’s) = 弟さん [otōtosan] older sister (one’s own) = 姉 [ane] older sister (another person’s) = お姉さん [onēsan] younger sister (one’s own) = 妹 [imōto] younger sister (another person’s) = 妹さん [imōtosan] husband (one’s own) = 夫 [otto] husband (another person’s) = ご主人 [goshujin] wife (one’s own) = 妻 [tsuma], 家内 [kanai] wife (another person’s) = 奥さん [okusan] grandfather (one’s own) = 祖父 [sofu] grandfather (another person’s) = お祖父さん [ojiisan] grandmother (one’s own) = 祖母 [sobo] grandmother (another person’s) = お祖母さん [obāsan] grandchild (one’s own) = 孫 [mago] grandchild (another person’s) = お孫さん [omagosan] uncle (parent’s older brother) (one’s own) = 伯父 [oji] uncle (parent’s older brother) (another person’s) = 伯父さん [ojisan] uncle (parent’s younger brother) (one’s own) = 叔父 [oji] uncle (parent’s younger brother) (another person’s) = 叔父さん [ojisan] aunt (parent’s older sister) (one’s own) = 伯母 [oba] aunt (parent’s older sister) (another person’s) = 伯母さん [obasan] aunt (parent’s younger sister) (one’s own) = 叔母 [oba] aunt (parent’s younger sister) (another person’s) = 叔母さん [obasan] nephew (one’s own) = 甥 [oi] nephew (another person’s) = 甥ごさん [oigosan] niece (one’s own) = 姪 [mei] niece (another person’s) = 姪ごさん [meigosan] cousin (one’s own) = いとこ [itoko] cousin (another person’s) = いとこさん [itokosan] It looks complicated, but really it's just adding a polite ending and/or prefix to most of them. There are only a few which actually change their forms. Making this list was actually the first time that I learned of the difference in age between siblings with regard to aunts and uncles in Japanese (伯父 vs. 叔父 and 伯母 vs. 叔母). As for the politeness, I believe you use the term for your own relative when referring to them, but when addressing them or talking about another person's relatives you must use the polite form. EDIT: Somehow I managed to forget to include brothers and sisters. Edited by ellasevia on 08 April 2011 at 12:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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