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Sōshi-kaimei-style Japanese/Korean script

  Tags: Writing | Korean | Japanese
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
w1n73rmu7e
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 Message 1 of 7
22 April 2011 at 6:30am | IP Logged 
Hey, is anyone familiar with the bilingual Japanese/Korean writing style used for the Sōshi-kaimei? I couldn't find much info about it online and was hoping someone here might be able to answer a few questions:

1. Are there any other documents written in this style? Is there a formal name for this style of writing?

2. Does anyone have a high resolution copy of the Sōshi-kaimei or of other documents written in this style? The copy on Wikipedia is a little difficult to read.

3. How were they able to get the kanji/hanja order to match up perfectly? There are certainly grammatical differences between Japanese and Korean that would make this difficult. Did they just restrict themselves to sentence structures where this wouldn't be a problem? I can see that there are many cases in the Sōshi-kaimei where a certain number of kana are represented by a fewer number of hangul blocks (such as in the large text on the far left or far right).

Edited by w1n73rmu7e on 22 April 2011 at 6:34am
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Ichiro
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 Message 2 of 7
23 April 2011 at 6:23am | IP Logged 
This doesn't look like anything more complicated than a Japanese text with a parallel gloss in Korean of the kana words, capitalising on the ability of the Koreans to read the sense of the Kanji and the grammatical similarity of the two languages.

w1n73rmu7e wrote:
3. How were they able to get the kanji/hanja order to match up perfectly?


I doubt they did, they probably just translated across directly.
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w1n73rmu7e
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 Message 3 of 7
25 April 2011 at 1:57am | IP Logged 
Ichiro wrote:
This doesn't look like anything more complicated than a Japanese text with a parallel gloss in Korean of the kana words, capitalising on the ability of the Koreans to read the sense of the Kanji and the grammatical similarity of the two languages.
I know, I just found it interesting because it's something I've never heard of before. It's not so much a Japanese text with a Korean gloss as a bilingual document where the kana and hangul "share" the kanji/hanja.

Ichiro wrote:
w1n73rmu7e wrote:
3. How were they able to get the kanji/hanja order to match up perfectly?


I doubt they did, they probably just translated across directly.
What I meant is that while Japanese and Korean are similar, their word orders are by no means identical. But to use this sort of system, they would have had to have the same word order, which seems like it would be very difficult unless they really restricted themselves in terms of the sentence structures they used.

Edited by w1n73rmu7e on 25 April 2011 at 1:59am
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clumsy
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 Message 4 of 7
25 April 2011 at 11:28am | IP Logged 
w1n73rmu7e wrote:
Ichiro wrote:
This doesn't look like anything more complicated than a Japanese text with a parallel gloss in Korean of the kana words, capitalising on the ability of the Koreans to read the sense of the Kanji and the grammatical similarity of the two languages.
I know, I just found it interesting because it's something I've never heard of before. It's not so much a Japanese text with a Korean gloss as a bilingual document where the kana and hangul "share" the kanji/hanja.

Ichiro wrote:
w1n73rmu7e wrote:
3. How were they able to get the kanji/hanja order to match up perfectly?


I doubt they did, they probably just translated across directly.
What I meant is that while Japanese and Korean are similar, their word orders are by no means identical. But to use this sort of system, they would have had to have the same word order, which seems like it would be very difficult unless they really restricted themselves in terms of the sentence structures they used.

It's a very sad part of the history.


Well, actually Korean and Japanese have the same word order.

The words may be longer or shorter.


English:

The girl likes to eat cookies

Japanese/Korean:

Girl topic cookie object eat thing object like.


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cntrational
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 Message 5 of 7
25 April 2011 at 12:34pm | IP Logged 
Note that Japanese and Korean are very similar languages; similar enough that it is theorized that they are part of the same language family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic
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w1n73rmu7e
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 Message 6 of 7
27 April 2011 at 7:13am | IP Logged 
clumsy wrote:
Well, actually Korean and Japanese have the same word order.

The words may be longer or shorter.


English:

The girl likes to eat cookies

Japanese/Korean:

Girl topic cookie object eat thing object like.


I can see how this would work for simple sentences. But will that hold true as sentences get more complex?

For example, even languages that have diverged within recorded history, such as Dutch and Afrikaans, demonstrate notable differences in word order. But for Japanese and Korean, even placing them in the same language family (Altaic) is disputed.

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clumsy
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 Message 7 of 7
03 May 2011 at 6:47pm | IP Logged 
w1n73rmu7e wrote:
clumsy wrote:
Well, actually Korean and Japanese have the same word order.

The words may be longer or shorter.


English:

The girl likes to eat cookies

Japanese/Korean:

Girl topic cookie object eat thing object like.


I can see how this would work for simple sentences. But will that hold true as sentences get more complex?

For example, even languages that have diverged within recorded history, such as Dutch and Afrikaans, demonstrate notable differences in word order. But for Japanese and Korean, even placing them in the same language family (Altaic) is disputed.


Well, I have never seen this document, so I cannot tell, maybe they made some changes - they share some words.


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