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Japanese sentence pattern question | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4816 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 1 of 8 23 April 2011 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have been using Mango languages to work my conversational Japanese. I was reviewing a section on asking for directions, and I came across two patterns. I don't understand why they aren't constructed the same way.
Here are the examples (with Japanese written in Romaji): Where is the Tokyo Hotel on this map? Tookyoo hoteru wa kono chizu no doko desu ka? Where is the Ueno Inn on this map? Ueno Kooen wa kono chizu no doko desu ka? This is the other pattern: Is there a bus stop around here? Kono hen ni basutee ga arimasu ka? Is there a taxi boarding area around here? Kono hen ni takushii noriba ga arimasu ka? So... I don't understand why the location is fronted in the "arimasu" sentences. Would it be just as well understood to say "Basutee ga kono hen ni arimasu ka?" Or is it because of the existential sentence and the "ga" particle that things are moved around? Thank you in advance for your help. Arigatoo gozaimasu! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6221 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 8 23 April 2011 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | ||
I believe both are acceptable. 8 million hits for がこのへん on google is a fairly strong indicator. "がこのへんにあります" has over 200,000 as well. In general, Japanese word order is fairly flexible, similar to that of Slavic languages, Hungarian, Esperanto, etc. It just uses particles, rather than case endings, to make the meaning clear. Also, surely you mean Ueno park? Corrections from actual Japanese speakers welcome. Edit: fixed URL and a silly English mistake. Edited by Volte on 23 April 2011 at 8:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4816 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 3 of 8 23 April 2011 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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It could have been Ueno Park or Ueno Inn. I do know the difference but obviously didn't catch it in my original post. Thank you for your help.
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| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6221 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 4 of 8 23 April 2011 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | ||
どういたしまして - you're welcome. Good luck with Japanese, Finnish, and your other languages! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5548 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 5 of 8 23 April 2011 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I do believe that it's because of the sentence type.
If you turn around the word order of the sentence pattern, it seems to me that it means something like 'And a bus stop, do you have one around here?(+polite)' or 'And the bus stop, is that somewhere around here?(+polite)', depending on what has been said before. But let's wait for those who aren't perpetual low-intermediate students like me. Edited by Bao on 23 April 2011 at 8:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bird Diglot Newbie Japan Joined 5476 days ago 20 posts - 45 votes Speaks: Japanese*, English | Message 6 of 8 24 April 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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1) Kono hen ni basutee ga arimasu ka?
This would give a impression the speaker already know there's a bus stop around there but doesn't know exactly where it is. 2) Kono hen ni basutee wa arimasu ka? This sounds most natural. Even if you already know there's a bus stop around there, it might be better to use this, because this seems more modest than 1), not implying you already know there's a bus stop. 3) Basutee wa kono hen ni arimasu ka? Most people would consider this natural, but some people might feel 2) sounds better, though it's hard for me to explain why. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| unzum Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom soyouwanttolearnalan Joined 6696 days ago 371 posts - 478 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin | Message 7 of 8 05 May 2011 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Interesting. Thanks for the explanations, it's always helpful having a native's opinion. The difference between wa and ga is on of those grammar points that I've never quite understood the difference between, so this is really useful for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5163 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 8 of 8 05 May 2011 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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1) Kono hen ni basutee ga arimasu ka?
Is THE bus stop around here? 2) Kono hen ni basutee wa arimasu ka? Is there a bus stop around here? 3) Basutee wa kono hen ni arimasu ka? Are there any bus stops around here? (implying that you've just been talking about bus stops but that you are somewhat changing the topic of discussion) Hopefully, Bird might confirm my impression of number 3. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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