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Japanese from scratch TAC 2015 東亜 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4966 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 489 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I missed this.. I'm not specifically studying the Japanese pronunciations at the moment. With a few exceptions - if I see they're used often in compounds. I totally thought that こ in 小 was a Chinese pronunciation because it gets used in compounds so much. So I learned that. This is just my approach to getting better at vocabulary and reading Japanese right now. I'll probably adjust it in a few weeks - I change my mind on this language so much it's disheartening. It's such a pain in the butt. Other people talk about its beauty but right now I really only see how hard it is. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6402 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 490 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Even when they did give lists for the old tests, they could still take a certain number of words from outside the lists. Maybe that's why they stopped giving lists. Or maybe they want people to actually study the language instead of memorizing lists of words. There are always a lot of people who study to pass tests rather than using the tests in the way they were meant to be used -- to test your level. I find that I get rusty too, and very quickly, but a few days of working at it and I'm back on track. I don't dare let it go too long though without studying. I've done that before and lost almost everything. I used to be very good at writing, but now that I just read a lot and write on the computer, I keep forgetting the simplest kanji and even hiragana sometimes. I'm trying to write a bit on lang-8 (not that I've done much, but I'm trying), and I've started writing everything out by hand first to get the writing practice. I suppose it's a lot more work, but I think it will improve my writing. Also, when I type it in afterwards, I often find mistakes that I can correct. I find mistakes much more easily if I rewrite something than if I just reread it. The same is true for English, by the way. Spell check and grammar check are melting my brain. I used to know these things! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6402 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 491 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Japanese is a pain in the butt. I'm always trying to find a more efficient way to learn it and changing around how I do things. The problem is that learning a language isn't like learning other things and you don't really find out what the best way (for you) to learn it is, until after you've finished. Of course, other people who've already learned it might be able to tell you the "best way," but that is the best way for them, not necessarily for you. Even though I have the experience of learning Norwegian, the languages and my situation are so different that it's hard to apply the things I learned from studying Norwegian to studying Japanese. Right now, my study method is to lean back and take it easy and hope something filters in from somewhere. The iKnow site is nice because it sort of feeds you vocabulary without much effort on your part, but even that gets tiresome sometimes. I've been reading, but since it takes so long, it also gets frustrating. However, I do think I'm absorbing something. I really do need to get on with watching movies or something though. I wish my internet connection were better so that I could more easily watch dramas. I should probably just try to figure out how to download them, preferably with Japanese subtitles. Woodsei gave me some hints on how to do it, but I still haven't tried. I'm not very good at figuring these things out, but I should at least make the attempt. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4966 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 492 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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My German and Spanish are at an intermediate level. I can sit down and read a book and enjoy it. If I feel
particularly motivated to improve I can jot down new vocab or analyze grammatically interesting sentences. In other words, my method of studying these languages has been very consistent for a long time now - but this just refuses to happen with Japanese. Stupid writing system is so ridiculously hard it complicates everything. Don't mean to sound too negative heh - I'm still pressing on and expect success... someday. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Takato Tetraglot Senior Member HungaryRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4830 days ago 249 posts - 276 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, EnglishB2, GermanB2, Japanese | Message 493 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I know you find it lame to be able to comprehend but unable to read Japanese texts, but why not do it if it's easier? Even Japanese people didn't learn the spoken and written language simultaneously, only by the time they had a solid foundation in the language. Now I don't say that I consider you a Japanese child or anything, I just mean that if it's difficult to learn both at once then it's not your fault. I find learning spoken Chinese rather difficult (probably more difficult than it actually is) so I started on the written language and it's going well so far. I realize that Chinese is not Japanese and that real much words are written in kana in Japanese, but you could give it a try, if you find it the least appealing. You could always listen to Japanese subtitled music videos and what not later on, somewhat like how Woodsei did, so I don't mean to ignore spoken Japanese forever (I didn't ignore spoken Chinese by the way, when reviewing already known hanzi, I always read the pronunciation so it can stick to my memory if it wants, but I'm not worrying about it.) I mainly mean that if a language is hard overall then it would probably be a good idea to learn the easier parts first. (I guess you know most kanji so you should probably listen to or watch subtitled Japanese.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5764 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 494 of 1702 18 August 2012 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I know! I think this is why I'm currently feeling so much love for German! All I can suggest is make sure your kana are really tight, both in terms of reading and handwriting. For the writing, if you are really rusty, set yourself up a few cards in Anki or whatever your favourite flashcard software is and just drill. I did this for katakana a couple of years back when I realised I struggled to write. At least once your kana is tight, you can write down anything you want and read any children's book or shounen/shoujo manga. Which is not so bad. Work on your listening so you can sit back and really enjoy some anime or drama without subtitles and then when reading just feels like too much effort you can still enjoy your knowledge of Japanese. There's just no escaping the fact that kanji takes time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4966 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 495 of 1702 19 August 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Redoing my flashcards yet again. I was putting kana on side 1, kana + kanji on side 2, and English on side 3. now it's kanji only on side 1 and then the kana + kanji on side 2 and English on side 3. Does this it really matter? ARGH! Nah my kana is good. I just hadn't written it in ages. For the hiragana after writing a character once it's fine after.. but I have to copy that first character lol. I think it's kind of funny. Recognition is totally different from producing, but I wrote out so many homework assignments last semester that it's still there. Katakana on the other hand I'm not as sure about. I've been getting practice since I'm doing Chinese pronunciation of kanji and that's always in katakana. I wrote out New Hampsire in katakana and got it right.. but I've got a whole exercise in katakana to do I'm sure there's a few characters that don't get used so much that I'll blank on. Such as ナ and ヌ. The former is pretty common in hiragana but not so much in katakana. *edit* I think ヌ is less common in katakana words because they write the sound ニュ more often? Not sure.. I just don't see it. Edited by kraemder on 19 August 2012 at 12:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5764 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 496 of 1702 19 August 2012 at 12:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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ニュ is a different sound though. Hmm, maybe a ニュ equivalent sound is just much more common in English words borrowed into Japanese. I'm ok with remembering ナ, I think because of the similarity to the first two strokes you write in な. But I still struggle to recall ヌ.
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