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Homosexuality and Arabic | ||
Tags: Homosexuality | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| dizzycloud Triglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6409 days ago 88 posts - 109 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Turkish | Message 1 of 24 08 May 2011 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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First and foremost, I think it's important to ask to keep personal opinions about homosexuality out of this debate please.
Arabic has always been a language which has attracted me...I love the phonology, the importance in politics which it plays, the art and music within Arab cultures, and the idea that it has an entirely different script which I could get my teeth into. However it seems to me that being gay puts a big hurdle in front of any goal to becoming fluent. Why? Because as we're all aware, living in the country of the language which you are learning is vital for your fluency levels, and given the illegal status of homosexuality in Arab countries, together with the social rejection of 99% of Arabs to the idea of two men together, it is enough to make me reconsider all those reasons listed above as to why I want to learn this language. Do you think it is right to be cautious or reject learning a language based on the political affiliations of the country/countries in which the language is spoken? I just don't see how it would be easy to fully integrate with these citizens if they share such outlandishly political opinions regarding something which to you is so personal and could essentially cost you your liberty if you went to live there... 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5264 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 2 of 24 08 May 2011 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | ||
No one is forcing you to learn Arabic or any other language. If you find certain political views to be appalling, and if you find them so appalling that it outweighs the benefits and joy of learning the language, then I don't think you should feel bad about choosing not to learn that language. Edited by tractor on 08 May 2011 at 3:21pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6967 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 24 08 May 2011 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I came across a similar problem with Croatian but involving nationalism instead. Among other reasons (lack of time, lack of need) I eventually dropped it also because enough of its native speakers got under my skin with their national arrogance masquerading as patriotism. I didn't expect this to be a problem since I've dealt with nationalists who are native speakers of my other target languages. Yet what was special about this instance was that nationalism had penetrated quite deeply into language planning and perception of appropriateness of lexicon or pronunciation. For example I was being corrected several times on the grounds that what I was learning or using were "Serbianisms" or other such nonsense, and that to have "good Croatian", I needed to use whatever the corrector felt was proper. Normally I wouldn't have cared but what I was using was called "Teach Yourself Croatian" and was published long after the collapse of Yugoslavia. This kind of political pedantry sapped my motivation and made me feel as if the act of doing grammar drills was a political act. No thanks.
The common thread seems to be that if the speech community promotes certain views or outlooks, these views may ultimately drive away some potential learners. Unless we were compelled to learn something, why should we choose to pursue things that we're confident will bother us? 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5577 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 4 of 24 08 May 2011 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | ||
Not living in the country. Being part of a community where the language is spoken. You can very well live in the country and be so far removed from native speakers that you won't learn any more phrases, and I am pretty sure you can find native speaking friends who can tolerate or even accept you for who you are. I think there will always be parts of a culture, often very integral parts, that one may have trouble dealing with, as well as parts that are exciting and wonderful. And the same goes for individuals. When I think of those of my muslim friends who were born in a muslim country, I cannot imagine that their tolerance and patience stems solely from their interaction with other cultures; I do believe that it's their true personality. You do of course need to learn how to behave in a socially acceptable way in public or with people who aren't very close friends, and it's helpful to know how to deflect remarks that show prejudice without letting it get to you. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5845 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 5 of 24 08 May 2011 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | ||
Maybe a better option would be learning Turkish. Discrimination and persecution on the grounds of religion, sexuality, etc. are less common in Turkey. It is also generally a safe place, unlike the Arab world at the moment.
You are forgetting there are also homosexual Arabs. You can study the language for their sake and be open within that community. The Arab world is not the best place for gay people. Inevitably you will have to keep a low profile if you want to visit or live there. Some countries are outright dangerous for gay people, you'll probably want to avoid them. Edited by Sennin on 08 May 2011 at 5:01pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jinx Triglot Senior Member Germany reverbnation.co Joined 5504 days ago 1085 posts - 1879 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Catalan, Dutch, Esperanto, Croatian, Serbian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish, Yiddish | Message 6 of 24 09 May 2011 at 4:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I have a friend who is gay and is majoring in Arabic. He plans to move to Syria within a few years to teach English. He knows that he'll have to live a rather "underground" lifestyle, but he's okay with this. Also, apparently certain cities have a rather lively underground gay culture... Beirut comes to mind, if I recall correctly.
Basically, I don't think you should give up on a language you really love just because of a larger than average percentage of "haters" among people who speak that language. Unfortunately, there are still many parts of the US where you couldn't be out if you didn't want to get insulted, abused, or worse. It might be possible to find a gay community in Arabic-speaking countries through the internet. You'd have to be very clandestine about it, of course – the more paranoia the better, when it comes to protecting your personal safety – but as Sennin said, there are also homosexual Arabs, and I'm sure they don't all live completely isolated lives. If you're careful, you'll probably be able to make friends in the gay community wherever you go. In this case it just might take a lot longer, due to how cautious you'd have to be. All the same, if you're considering living a good portion of your life in an Arab country, you might want to seriously consider how sucky it would be to spend your whole life having to conceal who you really are, or else risking your safety. In this case I would say it's probably not worth it. But if you just want to travel to the countries from time to time, or make some friends from those countries, I say go for it. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5145 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 7 of 24 09 May 2011 at 9:41am | IP Logged | ||
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I would not do it. It is too risky. When I was a young girl of 18, I wanted to go to Libya to study Arabic. It is the one thing my mother, who otherwise supported my language studies said flatly no to. Blonde,naive,young,rosy cheeks - and Libya. Not a terrific combination.
There are so many other languages you can learn, pick one where you can be yourself. It has taken a lot of years before homosexuality has been totaly accepted in the west - so I would vote for a language where your personal safety is not at risk. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dizzycloud Triglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6409 days ago 88 posts - 109 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Turkish | Message 8 of 24 10 May 2011 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks very much for all your replies so far, I am aware that there are gay people in Arab speaking countries, and I infact have a gay friend here in the UK who has been brought up in an Arab speaking country all his life and is bilingual in the two languages, but he often tells me of the repression and high risk of going to these underground places where many religious police attempt to "track down" the gay "wrongdoers".
I think at this moment in time I would probably take up the language as an "on-the-side" hobby but not delve too seriously, then maybe I have the best of both worlds! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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