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Homosexuality and Arabic | ||
Tags: Homosexuality | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5845 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes  5 sounds | Message 17 of 24 03 June 2011 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
It's not a question of being "fan of gay rights". For many people it is a question of life and death. I know, for example, that one of the punishments reserved for gay people is to glue the anus and give the victim laxatives.Very inventive, it rivals Nazi crimes. But more commonly gays are just hanged, the joy of it. So I'd say tolerance of cultural differences is one thing, outright cruelty is another. [edit] p.s. South America is light years ahead, there's no ground for comparison. Edited by Sennin on 03 June 2011 at 1:50pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5845 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 18 of 24 03 June 2011 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Desertbandit, perhaps I've been watching exaggerated western documentaries. In any case the death penalty is just that, killing people. Is it not ?
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| galindo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5018 days ago 142 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Portuguese | Message 19 of 24 04 June 2011 at 2:28am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Desertbandit, I can understand that you feel offended since people are saying negative things about your culture and that might feel like a personal attack. However, it's a fact that Arabic is not a good choice for a woman or a gay person who wants to learn a language, make friends, and move to/visit a country where it is spoken. It's not a matter of "everything western is better," but rather "I'd rather not go to a place where my life might be in danger."
It's not as if we want to be mean and label the Middle East as "backwards," but unfortunately the values in that part of the world are completely out of sync with modern times. I'm sure that most of the people who live there are wonderful and friendly, but the religious laws and the theocratic governments are a big barrier. If Islamic countries became more secular, abandoned traditional customs that disenfranchise women, and stopped killing people for things that are not crimes in most of the world, then language lovers would feel more free to study Arabic and all the wonderful things about Middle Eastern culture and history. I hope that will happen someday, but I don't expect it to happen within my lifetime. Cultural values can take a long time to change, especially with religious leaders preventing any attempt at reform and poverty preventing most people from playing any role in how their countries are run. Of course, this is not a problem limited to Islam or Islamic countries. Conservative Christian groups from the United States have been helping stir up anti-gay attitudes in Uganda, and this has led to violence and death. I definitely won't be visiting there, either! 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Desertbandit Groupie Netherlands Joined 4911 days ago 80 posts - 104 votes Speaks: Arabic (Iraqi)* | Message 20 of 24 04 June 2011 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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So we are all women beaters and terrorists who hate the west in the middle east? and you most likely are to die there becaue of it ?
I can't believe that on a forum like this people can think like this . Shouldn't you be open minded to all cultures? to get a better understanding to learn and see wether any of the stereotypes are actually true? I am saddened to see that whole regions get stamped as backwards. I mean have you even seen the current day news? Allot of Middle eastern citizens are on the street right now fighting for freedom something that is valued so very much in the west and you somehow deny it because it does not fit in your view of ''middle eastern'' culture ? All the women I know in the middle east are proud women, who won't budge an inch for no man and the Men I know who live there are all noble and men of Honour who would never hurt anyone unjustified. Its a shame man I find it a real shame to see these kind of ideas on this forum . A true language learner is not bothered by stereotypes a true language learner..learns the language to see or any of those stereoptypes are even true . Edited by Desertbandit on 04 June 2011 at 2:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5507 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 21 of 24 04 June 2011 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I agree that we shouldn't automatically assume stereotypes are true, and it would be
better to learn the language and experience these things first hand, and the middle east is often portrayed as more negative than it is. But if we're talking about factual statements such as "country x has a death penalty for homosexuality" I fail to see why one needs to understand that country's language or spend time in the that country to express one's reaction to what appear to be undisputed facts. 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6250 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 22 of 24 04 June 2011 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
You are literally the only one writing things like that. The vast majority of people on this forum do not think any such thing.
Sure. Part of keeping an open mind is not ignoring what is unpleasant, though. There are a lot of wonderful things about every part of the world - and no part of the world is perfect. There are parts of some Western cities which are dangerous; there are parts of the world where kidnappings are uncomfortably common (on several continents). People share this information. Similarly, people share information about where a culture has the death penalty for something their own culture(s) do not - this is rather critical information.
When that happens, so am I.
No one is denying that - it just hasn't been mentioned. It's somewhat irrelevant to the current discussion (just like a defence of an unrelated positive element of any Western country you choose would be, in a thread about a specific thing that country did/does badly). When the point of a discussion is propaganda, 'balancing' negative statements with unrelated positive ones can be relevant. When the point is information, that type of 'balance' is just noise. The Middle East has some amazing history. It was one of the cradles of civilization. It had some of the world's earliest universities and best scholars (as did China), while Europe was languishing in the dark ages. Today, it still has excellent food and music. And none of that changes the facts about the death penalty in various countries.
I'm not seeing much of those kinds of ideas here. It seems you have been exposed to some rather biased ideas - and I feel sympathy towards you for that. That does not mean that everyone who says something uncomfortable shares most of those ideas. The few bits that do appear are saddening. People in the middle east are much like anywhere else. I have friends who were friends with a guy who was gang-raped in Morocco, by local people. He was later beaten to death in the USA, by local people. Every country has some people who do terrible things.
I largely agree. However, it can still be worth finding out about a language before deciding to learn it. Knowing that the main countries where a language is spoken currently have the death penalty for something relevant to you is important information. 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5845 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 23 of 24 04 June 2011 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Also, I know what it's like living in a homophobic country. So unless we have a forum member who is fluent in Arabic and is also bisexual or gay, I don't see how we can get a more accurate picture. Things like that seriously affect my motivation to learn a language. I would rather focus on French, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Swedish, Dutch, Hungarian, Japanese and possibly Turkish ^_^. Ofc, this is my biased and subjective choice. I see that many people have voted for my posts, thanks for the support. I regret this thread is so negative, but given that Desertbandit wants to "screw me" (quotation from his deleted post), I won't apologise. Edited by Sennin on 04 June 2011 at 3:37pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6190 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 24 04 June 2011 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I think it's time to close this thread.
3 persons have voted this message useful |
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