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Japanese - 高級聴き取り | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Nejimakidori Diglot Newbie ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4776 days ago 9 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 1 of 6 21 May 2011 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been reading a lot of threads about Japanese on this forum lately. A lot of Japanese learners here seem to be very proficient and their listening comprehension skills seem great. But this is my weak point.
I've been studying Japanese by myself for about 4.5 - 5 years and I registered for the Japanese language proficiency test (JLPT) level N1 that will take place in East Asian countries mostly in July 2011. I passed N2 last year and found the whole exam quite simple, but the huge gap between N2 and N1 is now starting to scare the hell out of me. My main problem is, in particular, the listening comprehension part of the exam. I think I have a good grasp of the language in a very passive way and don't really fear the 言語知識 or 読解 parts where I am sure I can score enough points to make it, but the 聴解 section has been so far out of my range (I used a lot of exam focused textbooks and mp3 I found here in China). I spent three weeks in Japan in February and spoke Japanese there practically the whole time, had no problem whatsoever to understand people, be understood and had the feeling I was proficient enough to live in Japanese society - my keigo and spontaneity are not really amazing but still I always manage to be understand and most of the time people don't ask me to repeat what I say or act like they don't understand anything. I felt relieved at that time. But... After trying to solve the JLPT N1 listening problems, and in spite of me knowing the vocabulary used in them quite well, I realized I find it extremely hard to focus on what's being said and to extract details from Japanese long conversations. I always get the main topic but can't find the answers if the people change their mind, switch topics abruptly etc. It's very hard to follow people's thoughts. So I guess it's hard for me to follow "native" conversations and fully understand the contents. I know this exam is not that important but if I'm thinking of deepening my knowledge of Japan and the Japanese language in the next few years, I see JLPT Ｎ１ as a first step toward the real Japanese. Does it make sense ? It's more like : if I manage to pass it, then I will feel literate enough to finally pretend I can start studying Japanese in depth. Any advice to improve listening comprehension at an advanced level ? Any tips that might have worked for you ? Thanks a lot.． Edited by Nejimakidori on 21 May 2011 at 12:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5560 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 6 21 May 2011 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do you have the same problem with English?
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| galindo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5001 days ago 142 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Portuguese | Message 3 of 6 21 May 2011 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have the same question as Bao, because some people have this problem even in their native language.
The only thing I can suggest is listening to lively radio programs. Since you have trouble extracting details from long Japanese conversations, I can't think of anything better than listening to a long radio discussion that changes topic frequently and has several people speaking at once, because it does kind of require you to follow people's thoughts. If most of your listening practice is from watching television, not having a face to read might be the problem. If you already listen to a lot of audio-only native conversations, this problem might not be strictly language-learning related. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Nejimakidori Diglot Newbie ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4776 days ago 9 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 4 of 6 21 May 2011 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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My native language is French and it's true that sometimes I find it hard to stay focused a long time, even when listening to French people.
I suppose I don't have any problem with English, I watch a lot of series or movies and I never need subtitles to understand them. I use English more often than French in my daily life (I live in China and have to use either Chinese or English to be understood here). As for Japanese, I can follow TV shows or the news, or even doramas and movies and enjoy them. I tried an experiment just now and did two different types of listening questions (level N1) : 1/ 概要理解 type questions : you have to listen to one person explaining his/her point of view about something. It's quite long (never less than 1 minute) and then you are asked one question. I did 30 questions and only got 11 right, which is really bad. It seems I can't manage to remember the things I hear or I only remember the details that don't matter at all. 2/ 即時応答 type questions : here it goes much faster. You are given a quick sentence said by one person, and then you have to pick the corresponding reply for that sentence. There is nothing to remember really, you only need to react according to the context. And here I scored 21/30. Much better. So you're right. I'm not sure now if the problem is strictly related to Japanese. When I do listening practice exercises with my students (I teach French in a Chinese university), I noticed they always remember the information pretty well while I, the French native teacher, forget everything one second after listening to the recording. I have a very bad short-term memory. どうしよう...? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5560 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 5 of 6 21 May 2011 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Auditory short term memory is partly a matter of training. I say that because mine used to be horrible. I'm fine when what I hear only re-arranges information I already know or when I can immediately conceptualize the information I get, worse when I am supposed to actually remember what has been said. But I got better.
The thing with Japanese drama and movies is that they rely heavily on visual storytelling. You don't have to have to understand what's being said to understand what's going on. So they aren't a good indicator of how well one would understand a long discussion, for example. Talk shows are a bit trickier, but they still manage to cater to my short attention span. What helped me was to listen more, to listen to challenging content, to move while doing so, and to echo what I heard. Well, actually there are two points that should be tackled - if you, like me, have a problem with auditory retention of information, you probably have developed habits to avoid having to rely on that. Those habits are helpful in everyday life, but it is necessary to be able to not use them or replace them when something else works better in a situation, or when you can't use them; for example taking notes. It is possible to remember enough key points of a statement to be able to re-create it with accurate content after you've heard it. But for that you need to be able to spot the key points and commit them to memory quickly enough to not miss what's being said next. That is mostly a matter of practice. One exercise I started recently is to listen to an audio recording, pause after every sentence and to repeat the sentence. Diffifult, really difficult. Works also with writing it down, which shows more accurately where I was mistaken, but which also takes longer. You could also try out mnemonic techniques. The important point is that you force yourself to re-create the content of what has been said, starting out with short sentences and working your way up to longer bits of audio. The other part is to find something that helps you to focus on the audio. It helps to move, and it helps to echo what you are hearing. Of course you can't do that during the JLPT itself, but that's not the goal. Do you know how little children learn how to add their sums? When they begin, the have to say everything out loud, and with some practice they learn to subvocalize, and with a lot of practice it becomes automatic. I think echoing what you hear in order to understand it better may be a similar process. Edited by Bao on 22 May 2011 at 12:43am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| galindo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5001 days ago 142 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Portuguese | Message 6 of 6 21 May 2011 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | ||
If your main sources of Japanese are dependent on visuals to tell part of the story, that lets you get away with focusing less on remembering what you just heard. You should try radio, drama cds, podcasts, etc. since that way you have to train yourself to rely completely on the audio to follow what's going on. A long audio drama series would be good, because it forces you to work on your long-term memory in order to keep track of a long and winding plot. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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