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How many repetitions chorusing? | ||
Tags: Shadowing | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6476 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 9 of 24 26 July 2011 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Thank you, but I am not talking about speaking a language like a native speaker, I am talking about using just ONE audio-sentence like a native speaker. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5029 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 10 of 24 26 July 2011 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just kidding around. I do it with people I like.
1. Is your process that you´re sitting down, one time, and repeating one sentence over and over again until it sticks? I imagine that'll take quite a while to stick if you don't reinforce it later. 2. If that's your procedure, I have no experience. I write useful phrases on Anki and use the spaced repetition to remember it. 3. I have, however, memorized poetry in the past. After a while, the line becomes so ingrained that it will come out naturally. (Let us go then, you and I, when the evening is spread out against the sky, like a patient etherized upon a table... been a while since I've recited that one, might be some mistakes). I take it that's the kind of thing you're looking for. Probably one hundred times, counting all the failed attempts when I'm first trying to remember it. But of course that has to be reinforced from time to time to keep it around. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5567 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 11 of 24 26 July 2011 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||
You must love me then. Sorry, but you're not my type. slucido, they are right in saying that there is no absolute number of repetitions you would need to learn any phrase, even when the circumstances are clearer than what you've specified so far. You just repeat it until you've got it down. Edited by Bao on 26 July 2011 at 11:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5029 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 12 of 24 26 July 2011 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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There's probably an average number, but it's going to vary from person to person. I, for example, have a very bad ear for such things, so it takes me a while.
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 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6710 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 24 26 July 2011 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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I thought you already knew the answer (didn't you have a Youtube clip about chorusing and native-like pronunciation?), but in case I mix you up with someone else, I'd say that it depends on a lot of factors. Your familiarity with phonemes involved, your aptitude for imitating sounds and so on. Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 26 July 2011 at 11:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6476 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 14 of 24 27 July 2011 at 12:04am | IP Logged | ||
Sure the number of repetitions depends on the person and the language, but I think the question is very interesting. People want to learn a foreign language very well or they want to improve quickly or they even want to speak like native speakers. I think these goals are very unspecific and the answers as well: input, output, comprehensible input and endless variations. I think this is very vague and nebulous. How can we become much more specific and scientific? How can we use much more measurable goals? If we start with ONE sentence, one to four seconds long, we might have something much more specific. 1-What do we need to speak just ONE sentence like a native speaker? 2-How can we keep this performance? The aswer to the second question is something like distributed practice: SRS or something more primitive. What's the answer to the first question? I guess is easy to measure the output. If a native speaker listens to you saying aloud the sentence, he will be able to tell you if your sentence sounds like a native speaker or not. How do you get this native-like performance with ONE sentence? I guess it is feasible to achieve this goal with one sentence. I think is a matter of repetition and chorusing with the audio. Maybe you will need a lot of repetitions at the very beginning and much more if it is a far-related language. For example an English speaker learning Mandarin sentences. I guess you will need much less repetitions as you work with more and more sentences and the number of chorused repetitions needed will decrease exponentially and you will speed up the number of sentences. Do you see what's my point? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6476 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 15 of 24 27 July 2011 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||
Yes, I have a Youtube video, but this video is more a question than an answer. I am thinking aloud about answers. What do you think apart from the mortal boring factor? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5567 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 16 of 24 27 July 2011 at 1:08am | IP Logged | ||
Not exactly specific, either. What languages does the person in question speak? Which language is the sentence in? How well does the participant speak that language? All of those are vitally important even if you ignore talent/motivation of your participant. Most people won't be able to learn to say exactly one sentence just like a native speaker when they don't speak the language. That's because they don't have a good model of the target language sounds, and will use approximations when they recreate the sentence from memory. So you cannot look at one sentence in isolation if you want to reach a good performance, but without that one isolated sentences you have synergetic effects to account for ... By the way, it usually takes me one or two nights of sleep to reach an acceptable performance. (That is, practice until I feel I stopped improving, sleep, practice again.) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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