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leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6569 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog
| Message 25 of 68 13 October 2011 at 4:49pm | IP Logged |
Nice use of bold nway. But I couldn't see what that data was representing on your graph. Maybe because I have a
mac. See some nifty question marks though.
1 person has voted this message useful
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5434 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean
| Message 26 of 68 13 October 2011 at 4:52pm | IP Logged |
leosmith wrote:
Nice use of bold nway. But I couldn't see what that data was representing on your graph. Maybe because I have a
mac. See some nifty question marks though. |
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Hm? I have a Mac too. Do do you mean you couldn't see the graphics? Or was there an error in the formatting of the text?
1 person has voted this message useful
| MarcusOdim Groupie Brazil Joined 4866 days ago 91 posts - 142 votes
| Message 27 of 68 13 October 2011 at 4:56pm | IP Logged |
MarcusOdim wrote:
1.Hopefully you think it's a joke |
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I'm glad that you were joking, but the implication of your joke contradicts your own
argument, which is why I was confused that you would even make it.
You got confused way too easily,how is "billions of years" supposed to be realistic
when we are talking about humans? there is no contradiction
MarcusOdim wrote:
2.Most Africans live in absurdly poor countries and barely manage to
learn English, what about Mandarin?!?! |
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The point is that it's a significant chunk of the world that, along with Asia, isn't
linguistically naturally predisposed to English over Mandarin.
This doesn't make them any more relevent
MarcusOdim wrote:
3. English not only boils down to USA, there are other several very
important countries |
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I never even mentioned the USA in my post...
MarcusOdim wrote:
4. Asians could prefer Mandarin but who cares? millions of them
already do so and it makes no difference |
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Too empty of a statement to even respond to...
It's realistic, that makes no difference at all
MarcusOdim wrote:
5. What matters most is the West, that's a fact, the best countries
are in the West, the best 'anything you want' is in the West |
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"Best" is profoundly too subjective to even respond to, and I'm not even sure what
"anything you want" is supposed to mean, but this should suffice:
The best countries
The best quality of life
The best HDI
Sports, movies, great music
The most beautiful languages (I don't think you agree but Mandarin sounds like sneeze)
MarcusOdim wrote:
6. The only language that matters IN THE WORLD is English, there is
no "second most important language" 'in the world', all others are major languages but
still small compared to Enlgish, be it Spanish or French or Mandarin or Russian |
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I agree.
MarcusOdim wrote:
There are lots of Mandarin Language Courses arising but they are as
popular as French and Japanese and even Italian courses, it may "possibly" be a sign
that Mandarin is not thaaat much demanded yet |
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MarcusOdim wrote:
Each of these headlines individually isn't too big of a deal—but their combined stock
collectively affirms the transience of historical "facts" (such as lingua francas).
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Where are the sources?
I know China is growing at an abnormal rate and everything and I know it's developing,
but in order to beat English it would have to be culturally influencial too and we
don't hear any Chinese song being played on the radio, no Chinese movie...
Edited by MarcusOdim on 13 October 2011 at 4:57pm
1 person has voted this message useful
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5434 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean
| Message 28 of 68 13 October 2011 at 5:20pm | IP Logged |
MarcusOdim wrote:
You got confused way too easily,how is "billions of years" supposed to be realistic when we are talking about humans? there is no contradiction |
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Er...that's the point. It isn't. I never said "billions of years". I said "a century". Big difference. ;)
Malaysia has a higher Satisfaction with Life Index than the United States; and Hong Kong, Indonesia, Taiwan, and Thailand all have a higher Satisfaction with Life Index than Brazil...
Hong Kong and particularly Japan and South Korea each have a higher HDI than most of Europe...
MarcusOdim wrote:
Sports, movies, great music |
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Sports is just too ridiculous to respond to (you think non-Westerners don't play sports? Really?). Japan, South Korea, and the Sinosphere all have extremely healthy film and music markets—among the most prominent in the world. In fact I'd venture to say that the most externally popular national musical industry outside of the Anglosphere is probably that of South Korea, and of course both Japan and China have massive domestic music (and film) industries.
MarcusOdim wrote:
The most beautiful languages (I don't think you agree but Mandarin sounds like sneeze) |
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Lots of English-speakers think German is too "harsh-sounding" and masculine. Lots more think French sounds unpleasant with all the throaty guttural sounds. Lastly, most don't think of English as a particularly beautiful language (lots of people think of it as downright ugly).
If you're referring to the sources for those nineteen articles I cited (I seriously don't hope you think I just "made" all those up), they can all be found here:
http://www.pagef30.com/search/label/Chinese
MarcusOdim wrote:
we don't hear any Chinese song being played on the radio, no Chinese movie... |
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Speak for yourself. Your "we" ignores half the world's population. Billions of people don't hear Anglophone music on the radio or see Anglophone movies at the cinema (Arabs, East Asians, South Asians, and most Southeast Asians), and many Chinese music artists are well-known throughout eastern Asia.
Yes, we all know that English reigns supreme at the moment—but history teaches us that things have a way of changing.
Edited by nway on 13 October 2011 at 5:26pm
3 persons have voted this message useful
| MarcusOdim Groupie Brazil Joined 4866 days ago 91 posts - 142 votes
| Message 29 of 68 13 October 2011 at 5:43pm | IP Logged |
you mentioned a lot of countries but China's quality of life
Japan and South Korean are better than both USA and Brazil, but they are nto China
Thailand and Indonesia aren't China either
If the Thai, Japanese, Mongolian, Russian, Indian and South Korean ministers were to
meet today they would speak (or have a translation) in English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve lopment_Index
Both French and German may be disregarded by many people but they still aren't as ugly
as Mandarin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYlnJpvRwX8 , wth?
Histore shows that many languages such as French and latin have lost their supreme
importance but it also shows that neither of them was close to what English is
It is estimated that over 1 billion people are currently learning English world wide.
http://esl.about.com/od/englishlearningresources/f/f_eslmark et.htm
Is learning Chinese a waste of your time?
If you want to maximize your ‘return on investment’ in terms of a good job, income, and
‘opportunity costs’, I’d have to say this is an almost certain yes. The Economist
thinks so too.
While there are quite a few reasons why you might want to study Chinese, let’s look at
some of the reasons why it could be a waste of your time:
Why Learning Chinese Could Be a Waste of Your Time
Many Well Educated Chinese People Would Prefer to Speak to You in English – Even if
your Mandarin is better than their English (uncommon, but not unheard of – and no the
prime minister’s Mandarin in the linked video is definitely not better than the
interviewer’s English)
Little Applicable Value Outside of China - Most mid to upper level Chinese managers
speak okay to great English. The only people you typically need Mandarin to communicate
effectively with in a business environment is low level management. If you aren’t
stationed in China, then, knowing Chinese won’t help you much in communicating with
most Chinese companies.
Possible Negative Market Value – To really be able to use your Mandarin, you’ll need to
move to China, where you may have to take a large pay cut to get a job in which being
fluent in Chinese would be an asset. This quote from the economist article linked above
sums up things nicely:
Within China companies can hire an expatriate who speaks Chinese. Or, more often, they
take their pick from an abundant supply of local graduates in English who are happy to
work for 2,000 yuan (£130) a month. “I took an 80% pay cut to come here because I
wanted to learn the language,” says Ken Schulz, a software engineer from Silicon Valley
who studied Chinese full-time for four years at Beijing’s University of Language and
now works in the capital at WorkSoft, an outsourcing firm. “I’m the only foreigner in
an office of 1,200 people, and I hardly get any opportunity to use my Chinese.”
Huge Opportunity Cost – To really learn Chinese well, including reading and writing,
you need to spend years studying intensively. These are years in which you could learn
several romance languages or another skill set or perhaps even a profession.
Non-Negligible Maintenance Costs - Even though I speak Mandarin when dealing with
customers, read a Chinese magazine / newspaper daily, watch a bit of TV, and speak
almost exclusively in Mandarin with my girlfriend (and some friends), my Chinese skills
are slipping. It takes a lot of effort just to maintain, nonetheless improve, your
Chinese.
http://www.thechinaexpat.com/5-reasons-why-learning-chinese- could-be-a-waste-of-your-
time/
Mandarin is gonna become a second German
"Why learn language X if the natives speak English so well?"
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| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5434 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean
| Message 30 of 68 13 October 2011 at 5:48pm | IP Logged |
MarcusOdim wrote:
It is estimated that over 1 billion people are currently learning English world wide. |
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In other words, the same as the number of people learning Chinese...
MarcusOdim wrote:
Both French and German may be disregarded by many people but they still aren't as ugly
as Mandarin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYlnJpvRwX8 , wth? |
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*facepalm*
Never mind.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5364 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish*
| Message 31 of 68 13 October 2011 at 5:49pm | IP Logged |
I don't have an answer for this, but would like to protest the absence of Hindustani from the poll list. Its importance into the future surpasses for certain that of French and Russian.
I also can't view the images nway has posted. I get the message: "Domain Unregistered. To view, register at: ..."
Please, don't use Imageshack.
1 person has voted this message useful
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5434 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean
| Message 32 of 68 13 October 2011 at 5:51pm | IP Logged |
Juаn wrote:
I also can't view the images nway has posted. I get the message: "Domain Unregistered. To view, register at: ..."
Please, don't use Imageshack. |
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Argh, crap. Thanks for the heads-up.
Edited by nway on 13 October 2011 at 5:54pm
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