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The elusive peak and its effects | ||
Tags: Loss of confidence | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| fomalhaut Groupie United States Joined 4715 days ago 80 posts - 101 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 1 of 9 31 October 2011 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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has anybody ever felt that their goal is simply just elusive, ever stretching out before you?
i've been in Germany for 2 months, and my German has gone leaps and bounds ahead of what it was, yet i still feel as I know nothing. I'm 40 pages from finishing my first novel in the language (a Krimi, so not exactly high literature here), I can speak with a degree of accuracy and constantly listen to radio or other media and can understand the general idea and can sparse out unknown words to look up later. but ultimately i just feel slumped, i'm still in B1, i just feel it. I can't say, that after these 1 1/2 years of studying that i can 'speak' German. I can almost not even in the slightest understand vernacular, the normal speak of alltags, only precise Hochdeutsch. It's demoralizing in itself, but added with the fact that most Germans simply speak English with me despite my protests it's just feels like a big waste. I'm beyond fluent, in fact incredibly eloquent in English, the closest thing to a world language, so as I try so hard to get over these mountains a feeling of hopelesness appears and creates this undertone of futility in my studies. is this the final 'push' before i have some sort of epiphany? does it ever get easier after this point? Edited by fomalhaut on 31 October 2011 at 1:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5794 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 2 of 9 31 October 2011 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh yes I can relate entirely. It seems that every minor breakthrough I make in Japanese is then followed by realisation that the language is even bigger than I previously thought. But the only thing you can do is keep going.
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| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5193 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 9 31 October 2011 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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One could speak of the Achilles and the Tortoise paradox.
It's true that in absolute terms, you can never be finished learning a language, but in practical terms, you can definitely become very proficient to the point where there is nothing in your knowledge of the language that requires special attention, while remaining open and exposed to the language will continue to provide you with further refinement. You can aim for excellence, yet there will always be more to learn. But excellent is pretty good. To get better, you must struggle and you must take risks. If you aren't stepping out of your comfort zone and feeling vulnerable, then you aren't trying hard enough. When people switch to English "despite your protests", what do you do? Do you keep speaking German anyway? Ask people to correct you. Tell them your goal is to speak German and only German all the time. Tell them you will buy them coffee if you fail to honour your commitment. Set yourself up so you can't do anything but succeed. And you will. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4846 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 4 of 9 31 October 2011 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | ||
I really like these ideas, Arekkusu! I'll have to adopt them into my own study if I get an opportunity like this again. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5146 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 9 31 October 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am afraid this is part of learning languages. The more you learn, the more you realize how much you have left to learn. It is like being told to walk 10 steps up a ladder, and when you get to the tenth step, you find a ladder with another ten steps, and so forth for ever.
I suspect that those who learn a couple of languages in less than a week, just get to the 9th step, sit down and think" I'm practically there, I can stop now, I am fluent", without realizing that they have just learned the first few tourist phrases - with or without a good pronunciation. Feeling that you are not getting anywhere is a good thing. It means that you are fully aware of the task at hand, and have a very good chance of actually reaching your goal. Besides, it could be worse. During my two first attempts at learning Russian I just banged my head against the wall of my office after every class, repeating "I have oat meal porridge instead of brains in my head". You sound like you are beyond that point, at least :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5074 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 6 of 9 31 October 2011 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with @Arekkusu, @ Solfrid Cristin and @ jdmoncada. Great advice. In your specific situation, being in-country surrounded by the language, I think calls for a slightly different approach than being outside the country. In general to the more specific- to me, language learning can be analogous to weight training in some ways. If you are always training with 25 kilo weights you'll struggle with 50 kilos. If you are comfortable with 25 kilo weights you have to move up to a higher weight level or you'll never advance, and if you "cheat" you are only cheating yourself. Stop speaking English, insist on German and start "punching above your weight".
In language terms, challenge yourself with materials and conversations above your current level and stop relying on English. You are in such a wonderful position to advance your German. Benny at Fi3M.com has several posts that really speak to this issue of being in country and having trouble speaking. His advice mirrors @Arekkusu's advice- stop speaking English. The smartest decision you'll ever make in language learning This is hard core and quite radical, but it is what helped me advance in Spanish long before I ever heard of Benny. When I lived in San Juan, PR a few years ago I could have lived in an English-speaking bubble. I chose not to. I insisted on Spanish and stayed away from English as much as possible. Sure, it's frustrating not being able to express yourself properly but that is a powerful incentive to advance your language. You're not sitting back in the US in front of a computer with Assimil, you are out in the real German-speaking world. Take full advantage of it! Edited by iguanamon on 31 October 2011 at 4:13pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| fomalhaut Groupie United States Joined 4715 days ago 80 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 7 of 9 31 October 2011 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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thank you everyone, and iguanadon i'm completely inspired. i knew what i was doing was wrong, but i just needed that shout, that scream. The expats are holding me back, we decide to speak English because it's the lingua franca, that simple.
NO MORE English, i resort to English far too often in alltags, it's horrible, because i know with effort i could explain it in German, but English is much more easier. All of my future plans and goals depend on me becoming a 'speaker' of another language, ya know? If I can do this, I can do anything. I'm here, in Germany, I study my a** off daily, cramming so much info into my brain its ridiculous, so i'm just so dedicated to this. If I can finally break through that last barrier and say with resolution that, yes, I can speak German, all of my future goals will seem surmountable, especially language ones. But until I see that light, it will be hard. What a coincidence that the Irish Polyglott began on November 1st, as will I. great inspiration, wow 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| PinkCordelia Diglot Newbie Wales Joined 4623 days ago 31 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Italian, Welsh | Message 8 of 9 31 October 2011 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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fomalhaut, I feel the just same. I've been here in France for almost two months and
whilst I've improved loads I sometimes feel as though the main thing I've learned is how much more there is still to learn. And whilst France is no way near as bad as Germany lots of people switch to English here too. At first I felt rude switching back, but now I just do it and no one seems to mind. I also know that I've succeeded in the past with Italian so I know that feeling useless is part of the journey. Keep at it and it'll come. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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