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English’s voiceless "wh" (hw?) | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4759 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 28 09 November 2011 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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IPA: /ʍ/
Ok, so I'm confused after reading multiple online resources on this. I know all about the sound, how it's made, and the fact that it is slowly dissapearing from the English language. I got interested in this when this past weekend a friend noticed I said "when" with a puff of air, and then asked me to say "whale". I said it like "Wales" the country. So he was puzzled that I wasn't consistent with the sound. I told him I had no idea what ("hwat?") he was talking about, and then he explained. So that got me interested since apparently, most English speakers in the entire world have merged the two sounds, but some in the central/south United States and Scotland still maintain it, though even in those places it is dissapearing from what I've read. I tested myself and it seems I say ''hw'' with question words, to emphasize them, but I do not use this sound with the other ''wh'' words like ''white'', ''whale'', etc. So then I decided since I am a language lover and love sounds, that I will make this sound in all "wh" words from now on, as it is a very rare sound in world languages. Which ("hwich"), finally brings me to the question: Do you pronounce the "w" (rounded lips) before or after the puff of air??? What I mean is, is this sound supposed to be "h(w)" or "(w)h" (parenthesis for the "w" since it's unvoiced). I am even more confused now since it seems in Middle English this sound was spelled "hw" (Hwat?). For the record, I say it as /hw/ but lightly, not heavy. Thanks. Edited by outcast on 09 November 2011 at 8:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5191 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 2 of 28 09 November 2011 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here in Central Canada, it's extremely rare that I hear "hw" and if I did, I'd expect it to be from someone who either isn't from here or who has travelled a fair bit. I suspect quite a few people have never even heard the sound.
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| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6114 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 3 of 28 09 November 2011 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_wh
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| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5118 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 4 of 28 09 November 2011 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would pronounce the puff of air if I wanted to avoid confusion. Eg. "His username is whale123".
I think I say it as /hw/. The same way I say "quack" or "queen" anyway, except for the K-H bit. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4759 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 5 of 28 09 November 2011 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | ||
I was one of those, but as I mentioned I unknowingly use this sound when asking "what?!!", "where?!!" and I'm being emphatic about it, like in a situation of surprise. It seems most people either use it always or never use it. I wonder why I had that split, and I am trying to think back if maybe a movie or a person I knew influenced me or something... (can't remember of course). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5821 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 6 of 28 10 November 2011 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I think (and I'm suffering from the observer's paradox here), I think that I start by saying a "hhh" sound with rounded lips, and open the lips like I would with a W.
Or possibly I say an H-with-rounded lips and say W once I start opening my lips. I can't be completely sure. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| squeeze Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4686 days ago 32 posts - 48 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 7 of 28 10 November 2011 at 6:13am | IP Logged | ||
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Haha, this takes me back so much to my school days at a (south eastern) English grammar school! :)
About the only time I have personally ever heard the distinction used was during plays, readings or poems where it could optionally be used for repeated sounds in the same sentence, e.g. "which" and "witch". This was decades ago now. I only ever use the standard 'w' English pronounciation. Thus, the 'h' following a 'w' would normally be ignored completely. This is similar to the silent 'h' in German and I assume probably Dutch too. I vaguely remember northern friends who once talked about the distinction but they do not use it themselves either. Also, my dictionary considers this at best a rare regionalism of Northumbria, i.e. Northern England and south-east Scotland. I imagine this is how it may have partly migrated to the US too - though if Family Guy episodes are to be believed, it is considered (too?) posh or correct there, instead of quirky and regional like in the UK! Edited by squeeze on 12 November 2011 at 11:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| July Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 5083 days ago 113 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishB2 Studies: French | Message 8 of 28 10 November 2011 at 6:44am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm from the south east of England (where plain w is standard) and I do use this sound -
but it's because I picked it up from my mother who is Scottish. I never even realized that it was not normal for my accent until other people I had grown up with pointed it out to me. As far as I can tell, most English teaching material considers it to be archaic and not necessary to make the distinction. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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