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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Kanishka Triglot Newbie Italy Joined 4739 days ago 15 posts - 32 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, French Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari | Message 9 of 27 19 November 2011 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
There are! First of all, I would recommend Assimil's Le Persan Sans Peine. It's out of print but you can find it (of course, you must know French). It is very, VERY gradual but also very complete. Then, another good course is John Mace's Teach Yourself Modern Persian; also out of print. The new edition, by Narguess Farzhad, is not bad but badly paced IMHO. There is also a Pimsleur course. Persian is grammatically easy (and also phonetically, for an Italian at least); the main point is the alphabet that, while not too difficult per se, is not very good for a vowel-rich language like Persian (compared to Arabic), so you must memorize the words as they are written and as they are spoken. Edited by Kanishka on 19 November 2011 at 10:37pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5822 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 10 of 27 19 November 2011 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
How many resources do you need? There's more than enough available. Only you can make the final decision, but there's one piece of advice I'll give you: think about how you're going to get opportunities to practise -- learning a language is a lot easier if you get opportunities to use it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| asies Bilingual Tetraglot Newbie India Joined 4572 days ago 36 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English, Hindi*, Nepali*, Urdu Studies: Spanish | Message 11 of 27 20 November 2011 at 12:12am | IP Logged | |||||
reach the total fluency or to reach to the advance level one needs to concentrate on one thing at a time. Otherwise you'll end up confusing yourself only or else you'll give up. If you're already proficient enough then if you start something, it'll be much easier and less confusing but if you lack proficiency in any of these languages and still eager to do it than that's your choice, all we can do is just give you some advice that's it because you will decide them yourself. Your judgement is your smartness. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| AccentClipper Bilingual Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4566 days ago 13 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Portuguese Studies: Persian | Message 12 of 27 20 November 2011 at 2:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks to Kanishka for mentioning some Persian resources!
Also thanks to Cainntear and asies for advice. From what I know, I have a few friends from Iran and a couple from Turkey, so I'd definitely be able to practice Persian and Turkish. However, strangely enough, I don't know many people who know any form of Arabic. I'll give more thought into it and then post depending on my decision. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ljones29 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4608 days ago 35 posts - 59 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Arabic (Written), Greek | Message 13 of 27 20 November 2011 at 3:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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This is so exciting! I love helping people choose languages. Well, first of all, I'm
wondering if you've been able to look at or listen to each language yet. You know, turned on Persian/Arabic/Turkish news stations to hear the language spoken or watched any YouTube videos to get a feel for each language? If not, I'd definitely recommend doing this. Sometimes one language will jump out at you over the others. I began studying Arabic at the beginning of this year and I have been studying it off and on since then. I must say that I absolutely adore Arabic. I've been learning the language for a while but I'm still very much a beginner, creeping into Intermediate, maybe. (This IS Arabic, after all!) I definitely believe that it's nowhere near as difficult or intimidating as people would have you believe. It's really not that bad. Arabic is complex, but not difficult. I've been studying the Standard Arabic and I feel like it has really expanded my mind. Discovering new concepts, new rules, new words, not to mention a very rich and beautiful culture has all been very worthwhile to me. Particularly, discovering a new script was really exciting for me, since I've only studied Western languages up to this point. So I believe this would be a great choice for you. Having said that, my second choice for you would be Persian, since you have many native speaker friends. It's a beautiful language as well - I've thought of learning it myself. I should add that my ex-boyfriend was Tunisian, and having a native speaker to help you makes a huge difference. But you really can't go wrong with any of your choices. Hope I was helpful! 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| AccentClipper Bilingual Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4566 days ago 13 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Portuguese Studies: Persian | Message 14 of 27 22 November 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Alright, I'm probably leaning more towards Persian and Turkish, simply because I have close friends who speak the languages. However, my lust for Arabic is still on fire, and I have trouble making a final decision.
Despite what I've been told, the dialect and diglossia of Arabic still freaks me out. How different are the dialects from each other? Is it easy to go from MSA to a dialect, or from a dialect to MSA? Which of the three languages offers captivating literature? Also, between Persian and Turkish, Persian is what is drawing me more. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4789 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 15 of 27 22 November 2011 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
Honestly, from my point of view, Persian and Turkish seem like better choices, at least if you're still just as interested in them as you are in Arabic. You might not get other chances to learn and practice your Persian or Turkish, so now that you have the opportunity, I'd go for it. Take note that although Arabic isn't necessarily as monstrous as it is sometimes made out to be, it still takes great dedication to reach a level of proficiency (as with any language). And to be honest, having a native speaker as a friend helps greatly. That doesn't mean that Arabic is impossible without a native speaker, but it definitely enhances and progresses the learning process. The dialects are complex to explain. Many consider them to be part of a dialect continuum, meaning that while geographically close dialects aren't too distant, those on opposite poles have limited mutual intelligibility. This is rather true. In my experience, a Syrian and an Iraqi didn't have trouble communicating in their own dialects to one another, but and Iraqi would most certainly not understand a Moroccan or Algerian if the latter ones didn't modify their speech. Egyptian (more specifically, Cairene) and Levantine are two of the most widely understood dialects, primarily because they've played a major role in Arab media and pop culture. Speakers of Egyptian and Levantine dialects find minimal trouble when communicating with each other, in general, as the dialects are quite intelligible. This is partly because A) the dialects aren't very linguistically distant in the first place but also importantly because B) they are exposed to the dialects through media. Had there been no media or way for them to be exposed to each other's dialects, there would be some more time required for adaptation, though still not too much trouble. While staying in Egypt, I also met some Sudanese people, and they said that they could communicate relatively easily with Egyptians using their own dialect and didn't have much trouble with those from the Levant either. In general, Egyptian and Levantine speakers typically don't have much trouble with the Gulf and Hijazi dialects either, but still need more time than they would with each other. Gulf dialect speakers typically don't have much trouble with Iraqi dialect speakers. Yemeni, not always put under "Gulf", is hard to explain, IMO. In general, Arabic speakers within the Middle East don't have much trouble being understood in their own dialect. The main issue comes up when it's between these "Mashriqi" dialects and the "Maghrebi" dialects (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, sometimes Mauritania). Although some Middle Easterners don't have too much trouble with the eastern Libyan dialects, from there on it becomes more difficult. I remember having Algerian and Tunisian friends, and whenever they didn't want me or our Lebanese and Iraqi friends to know what they were talking about, they'd use their "pure" Maghrebi dialect, and we didn't understand for the most part. Take note that speakers of the language don't usually JUST use a dialect or JUST MSA, since the language is used in a rather spectrum-like way. People switch from their colloquial language to the standard within conversations, sometimes within phrases. That's one of the reasons why it is hard to distinguish things. Even if geographically distant dialects (such as Moroccan and Iraqi) could be linguistically considered different languages, this doesn't normally pose a problem, since they'll either use a common mixture of dialects and MSA, or (depending on the preference of the speaker), use French or English instead. In general, however, dialects from Egypt, Sudan, and eastward aren't terribly distant. Again, the main intelligibility issue is between the Mashriq and Maghreb dialects. Is learning a dialect easy after building a strong foundation in MSA? "Easy" is not the right word. Going from MSA to your first dialect still requires work. Just because you know MSA doesn't mean that going to the streets of Cairo or Amman and acquiring the dialects is effortless. Exposure is needed and practice as well. However, such a foundation in MSA, at least in my case and for several others, proved highly useful for getting to know the dialects, since you don't simply see the differences, but also the strong commonalities. If you were to learn MSA and a dialect side by side, the differences would feel more notable than the similarities. While not like learning a completely different language, going from MSA to your first dialect still requires some dedication. After MSA and your first dialect, however, acquiring other dialects is quite easy. Not "oh, I understand this other dialect after five minutes" easy, but definitely more accessible. My first dialect was Egyptian, and once I marched onto Levantine, I found Levantine highly accessible. It did not require so much effort. From there, going to the Iraqi, Gulf, and Hijazi dialects was even easier. It took me about 4-6 years to get a strong foundation in MSA and decent proficiency in Egyptian and Levantine. This included about 9 months in Egypt and Syria respectively. However, others have done it without being in the country -- so long as you can listen to the dialects and practice them in one way or the other, it is doable. Also, everybody is different. Some have taken longer, others may've even done so quicker. Regardless, Arabic requires serious dedication, and having ways to practice it with others is a key way to make progress. If you end up choosing Arabic, I'd personally recommend starting with MSA. It has more resources, has a set of rules that the dialects don't always have, and provides a foundational key to learning the dialects (at least the Mashriqi dialects, IMO; I have little experience with Maghrebi). While learning only a dialect first may seem practical if your purpose is only to speak it, it usually ends up being harder to move onto others and the standard language. Of course, I'm sure some have been successful by starting with a dialect, but many would agree that MSA is a great way to start. As for literature, both Arabic and Persian are superb -- whether it's poetry (Qabbani and Nawas; Ferdowsi, Rumi, Hafiz, etc.) to stories such as 1001 Nights, both languages offer a lot. As for Turkish, I haven't tapped into as much notable literature, but it's still a great language for going into the history of the region and I'm sure it has some notable works. EDIT: I forgot to mention that both MSA and a dialect are important if you want to truly grasp the language in its full glory. Without MSA, you won't have access to the bountiful literature, informative media (news, documentaries, etc.), and other literary as well as formal subjects. Without a dialect, experiencing the marketplace or speaking with the people would sound "stilted" in the form MSA. I remember someone saying that MSA and Classical Arabic were the versions of "power, history, and unity" while the dialects are of "intimacy and domesticity". I agree with this statement. Edited by Humdereel on 22 November 2011 at 5:29pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| AccentClipper Bilingual Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4566 days ago 13 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Portuguese Studies: Persian | Message 16 of 27 22 November 2011 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow, thanks Humdereel.
How about the dialects within each other (Levantine = Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, Palestinian; Egyptian = Cairo, other parts of Egypt; Maghrebi = Moroccan, Algerian, etc.)? About Persian: Is it Farsi, Dari, or Tajik? Is the Persian in Iran intelligible with the one in Afghanistan? Sorry for asking so many questions. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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