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Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6357 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 89 of 116 17 November 2013 at 11:47pm | IP Logged |
tastyonions wrote:
Serpent wrote:
leosmith wrote:
s_allard wrote:
Are there people here at HTLAL who suggest that the CFSI would do better to scrap all those
language classes, hand out Assimil courses and tell people to come back when they feel"fluent" in the language?
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I'm sure there are, but they are probably afraid to answer. Putting FSI up against Assimil is a no-brainer. |
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In terms of healthy language learning Assimil wins. It's like running daily and attending a fitness club VS those extreme diets that ruin your health. |
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What's a "healthy" language learning method? I mean, I am with you in that I'm far from being among those who enjoy "drill" activities in my learning, but if some people do enjoy it or at least feel it is worth the boredom, more power to them, I guess. |
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I've given a comparison. Did you see that article by someone who was learning Mandarin (I think) at FSI and said that crying multiple times a day from the stress was completely normal? I consider this very unhealthy and harmful. I'd even say that if your classes make you hate the language, you'll never be as good at it as someone who loves it.
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| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4050 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan
| Message 90 of 116 18 November 2013 at 12:00am | IP Logged |
It depends on the person I suppose as well. I would much rather learn anything by myself
than in a class, unless it is mandatory (i.e. university degrees, secondary school) and
sit the exam to prove that I know what I do. I remember being totally confused with
material and energy balances, something extremely fundamental, until during the break I
read some books and taught myself and it made much more sense after only several weeks
rather than the months spent oni t in class.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4425 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian
| Message 91 of 116 18 November 2013 at 12:01am | IP Logged |
Serpent wrote:
Did you see that article by someone who was learning Mandarin (I think) at FSI and said that crying multiple times a day from the stress was completely normal? I consider this very unhealthy and harmful. I'd even say that if your classes make you hate the language, you'll never be as good at it as someone who loves it. |
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Yeah, I read the article, but I'm not sure that the result is that people will end up hating the language, or even necessarily their teachers.
I'd be willing to bet that the people who go to FSI see the classes as the most efficient means to a highly desirable end (being able to use the language effectively in their official capacity), and thus see the frustration and tears as a necessary sacrifice. That's not to say that they're correct to see things that way, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.
Edited by tastyonions on 18 November 2013 at 12:05am
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6357 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 92 of 116 18 November 2013 at 12:36am | IP Logged |
If there was an objective need for an employee to lose weight, would they do what people with eating disorders do to themselves? would they encourage it or even allow it?
Why is language learning different?
2 persons have voted this message useful
| cathrynm Senior Member United States junglevision.co Joined 5885 days ago 910 posts - 1232 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Finnish
| Message 93 of 116 18 November 2013 at 1:55am | IP Logged |
I feel like I need some kind of independent evaluation, or it's too easy to drift into self-deception. I think maybe I'm getting better, but how do I really know? Sometimes I miss a few words, or get something backwards or wrong now and then, or I depend on trickery to get through a conversation. Maybe I'm getting better, or maybe not? It's hard to know exactly how it's progressing.
I sort of like the discipline of regular testing. This is how I've gone with Japanese. This is how I approach other things in my life. Ultimately I want measurement-- maybe it's the engineering background. But then, maybe I'd be more confident without this? I'd be kind of floating along blissfully unaware of my shortcomings, but would this be better? I'm not really sure to be honest.
Edited by cathrynm on 18 November 2013 at 1:56am
1 person has voted this message useful
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6357 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 94 of 116 18 November 2013 at 2:14am | IP Logged |
Native materials are the best test out there.
1 person has voted this message useful
| I'm With Stupid Senior Member Vietnam Joined 3933 days ago 165 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Vietnamese
| Message 95 of 116 18 November 2013 at 6:24am | IP Logged |
beano wrote:
I always associate "language classes" with adults voluntarily signing up for a course. |
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I wish that was the case. A large number of my adult students are in their late teens and early 20s and are being made to come by their parents. Still much better than public school though. Another phenomenon particularly in English classes are the students who aren't interested in actually learning English, just acquiring a piece of paper that says they can speak English. These are the sorts of people who think they can learn English just by turning up to class every lesson and doing nothing else.
1 person has voted this message useful
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5190 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish
| Message 96 of 116 18 November 2013 at 1:26pm | IP Logged |
I'm With Stupid wrote:
beano wrote:
I always associate "language classes" with adults voluntarily signing up
for a course. |
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I wish that was the case. A large number of my adult students are in their late teens and early 20s and are being
made to come by their parents. Still much better than public school though. Another phenomenon particularly
in English classes are the students who aren't interested in actually learning English, just acquiring a piece of
paper that says they can speak English. These are the sorts of people who think they can learn English just by
turning up to class every lesson and doing nothing else. |
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I think this is a very important point. Instead of saying that language classes do not work - as if all language
classes are the same - it should be said that language classes are not for everybody. Many people are simply not
interested, they are bored, they are more interested in the pretty or handsome neighbour than in the irregular
verbs, they see no point in learning something they will never use, they are there because their parents made
them come, they may have learning disabilities. In short, the language class is a waste of time for them because
they are not suited for the class. Then they proclaim that language classes do NOT work.
Is this surprising? Language classes may or may not work. It depends on the quality of the class and on the
quality of the students.
2 persons have voted this message useful
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