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Language classes do NOT work | ||
Tags: Class Learning | School Education | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| cathrynm Senior Member United States junglevision.co Joined 5911 days ago 910 posts - 1232 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Finnish | Message 17 of 116 07 December 2011 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Fluency, maybe, but for writing and composition, can you achieve a good level without getting corrections from a native speaker? I think this is also part of classes. Can you write error free essays without going through this process? How do you fix all the grammar mistakes?
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 116 07 December 2011 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | ||
and I agree with the AJATT guy that for good writing, reading is more important than writing. I used to have my LJ posts corrected by a native speaker, but then she was too busy to spend time online and I learned far more from reading. Now if I go back to my old posts (those she never corrected) I see myself what I could've said more eloquently, more prettily. corrections are overrated, imo. They're just very convenient. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tibbles Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4977 days ago 245 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean | Message 19 of 116 07 December 2011 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
THIS. Even the best class such as a one-on-one tutoring session can only do so much. It's necessary to spend time outside of class shoring up against the shortcomings of the class. The ultimate goal is to master the language, and passing the classes (and even getting an advanced degree) does not guarantee that goal. However, the same goes for pretty much any other area of study. There is an independent component that the student has to undertake outside of structured classes, labs, projects, etc in order to achieve true mastery, be it Spanish, Philosophy, or Engineering. I do have a beef with classes that keep on using L1 even in the intermediate and advanced levels. It's just one more bit of a lost opportunity for the student to grasp a concept about L2 *using and thinking in* L2. Edited by tibbles on 07 December 2011 at 8:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rivere123 Senior Member United States Joined 4616 days ago 129 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 20 of 116 07 December 2011 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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The only thing that school was good for was shaving a few hours of study by teaching me how to say the weather, a little vocabulary, the verb "aimer" and its negation, and the standard greetings and introducing (not teaching) me to the verb "Etre," in two years of study. It should never be relied upon or expected to yield any success, particularly in grammar and pronunciation.
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| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4529 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 21 of 116 07 December 2011 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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There are two things I like about language classes: the first is that the good ones will force students to actually produce the language, rather than the more passive listening and reading that self-learners often fall into. Although every class I've seen has had a lack of quality speaking practice (I remember the terror of my high school language class exams, the only time I would actually have to have a conversation in the target language), they at least require you to write in the target language.
The second is that without a language requirement so many people in large monolingual countries would never encounter other languages. I think anything that fosters an interest in other cultures and languages early on is valuable, and I know plenty of Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc. whose classes started a life-long interest in traveling and learning other languages. My biggest gripe with language classes (in the US at least) is that they usually start too late - not because teenagers can't learn languages, but because they've missed out on all those years of practice. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jarvis1000 Diglot Groupie United States want2speakthai.com Joined 4674 days ago 74 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English*, Thai Studies: Spanish | Message 22 of 116 07 December 2011 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it depends on "graded" classes like highschool and university, or classes where everyone goes JUST to learn and for no other purpose. I think the graded classes are all going to have problems in that they not only have to motivate you, but they also have to grade you. And no the teacher does not want to have an oral interview with all that are in their class to make sure they can speak the language, so they give out reading assignments or Conjugation exercises that they can get any teachers aide to correct for them.
The classes that are for just learning, if done in an immersive environment, are fine because it gives people a place to interact with other learners. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 23 of 116 07 December 2011 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
besides, for some acquiring active skills is just not a priority. obviously an independent learner who's going to the country of his target language soon will also practise speaking as much as possible. Edited by Serpent on 07 December 2011 at 11:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5482 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 24 of 116 07 December 2011 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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It really depends on the class. I've had better experiences with "harder" and more
obscure languages. This usually gets rid of people who will do just the bare minimum for the credit and reduces class size overall. Furthermore it's with those harder languages, where the hand-holding of a classroom is the most welcome. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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