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Language classes do NOT work | ||
Tags: Class Learning | School Education | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4796 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 49 of 116 12 November 2013 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, they do work under some conditions. Most negative views on the classes derive from the fact that there are far too many variables totally independent of you when it comes to the quality of the classes you attend. In many settings, not only public schools, you can't just switch a teacher if you get an idiotic one. You can almost never change the attitude of the other students, which can be devastating. You have no say in the resources, which looks unimportant only at first sight and only if you get a teacher with at least half a brain.
Sure, even under the horrible conditions, you will learn well if you "supplement" the class with self study. But in such a case, it is no longer supplementing, it is full self study with added required presense at far too expensive classes. Even if they are for free (such as during high school), you are still wasting your time which is a limited resource. And the last point usually raised (for those not getting the "hate" towards classes): the value/price ratio. The language schools are usually expensive and choose a too slow pace in order to make you pay them for much longer than needed. They are not going to push you, not only in fear of losing someone who just wants to sit in the class lazily and magically start speaking like a native, it brings profit to have people attend "false beginner" class for several years in a row. Really. Had I depended on the language classes, had I followed stupid advice of the teachers (not even the two awesome teachers I had were any good when it came to advice on further practice for example, the rest were mostly morons), I would have stayed monolingual and totally demotivated. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6696 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 50 of 116 12 November 2013 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm, when did self-study (practice, homework?) exclude the value of classes? That is necessary in any subject, not just languages. Surely there are classes which don't take you anywhere (compared to the price and/or time), but it's stupid to assume that classes alone give you all the necessary skills (and the proficieny to use those skills). Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 13 November 2013 at 4:46pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| slymie Tetraglot Groupie China Joined 5015 days ago 81 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English, Macedonian Studies: French, Mandarin, Greek Studies: Shanghainese, Uyghur, Russian | Message 51 of 116 12 November 2013 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have to disagree with making such a bold statement as "Language classes do not work".
They do work, but the degree at which they do depends greatly on the teacher and the student. Having a language class once a week for 2 hours will obviously not be of great help. Having a more intense class schedule works much better as everything is kept fresh in your mind, and everything 'sticks' much better than having a week to forget what you learnt. In my experience most language classes start out full, then slowly people quit, get busy or get behind and all of a sudden the classroom is empty. I'm taking Shanghainese lessons at an institute here in Shanghai, twice a week. We began with 15 students, now we are in the middle of intermediate level and there is myself and 2 other students left. The class worked for me because I love learning languages and I was willing to show up and push through it even being the only non-Chinese person in the class and having to work harder as my Mandarin while fluent is not perfect. I spend free time reviewing the lesson and listening to the audio, which many students don't do and think they will learn just by showing up to each lesson. Classes work. Full time courses work better and require less self-study. Part time work as well but require a great deal of self-study, review and preview. If you are trying to learn a language they are a great supplement to trying to learn on your own. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6446 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 52 of 116 12 November 2013 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't remember everything I took in high school French and Spanish classes, but I remember even less of the algebra and geometry classes I took. Does that mean mathematics classes don't work?
My language classes gave me a push to do some of the other stuff on my own. One good thing I will say about the high school classes I had is that they were free. As far as classes in college go, I can say that there are things I remember decades later even from classes I did not do well in. Classes work, but you have to work the class. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4796 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 53 of 116 12 November 2013 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | ||
When the class is so slow that you can cover a semester in two or three weeks of self study (real example, happened to me. What is the point of going to the class than?). When all the stupid teacher does is demotivate you to the point of all the self-study seeming worthless. (Happened to me more than once and in various ways.) When your classmates are (willingly) so much worse (and lazier) than you that it damages your motivation to work on your own. (Again, happened to me. I am not that disciplined to keep working hard on my own just to get bored 4 times a week because the people are still struggling with the basics and unwilling to exchange a Czech soap opera in tv for some work on their language). Basically whenever your self-study makes you different from the rest of the class. It is good when you have a few people to "compete" with, who are enthusiastic as well. It is very good to have classmates who speak better than you. And who do not hold the whole class back. In such circumstances, the class is a very positive influence and learning area. But sometimes, you just aren't that lucky. Unfortunately, most classes are based on laziness. Their pace and curriculum is based on the premise that you aren't going to self study. And the language schools usually don't let you move to a higher class every month or less. So, when you do study on your own, the stuff you are fed in the class soon becomes irrelevant and the mistakes your classmates are still stuck with get annoying. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6384 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 54 of 116 12 November 2013 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | ||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6696 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 55 of 116 12 November 2013 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree that self-study isn't the same as homework (I should have included a slash, as in "self-study/homework/practice").
No-one becomes an athlete (or professional musician) from classes alone. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6384 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 56 of 116 13 November 2013 at 12:35am | IP Logged | ||
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But many would be very much satisfied with the equivalent of an amateur's level. How many get even that?
1 person has voted this message useful |
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