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Language classes do NOT work | ||
Tags: Class Learning | School Education | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5210 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 57 of 116 13 November 2013 at 5:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I thought this thread had died. I'm still in awe of the fact that a statement such as "language classes do not work" is
even debatable. If somebody had said "Language classes dd not work for me" or "Bad language classes do not work", then I would see the basis for a discussion. But to imply that all language classes do not work is an outlandish statement that flies in the face of reality. Some classes are good; some are bad, for all sorts of reasons. Classes work for some people and not for others. Self-study is great for some people but we all know that the vast majority of people who buy those books and methods give up very quickly. Does anybody claim that "Self-study does NOT work" ? Edited by s_allard on 13 November 2013 at 6:49am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jheavner724 Decaglot Newbie United States Joined 3826 days ago 5 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, French, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Old English Studies: Vietnamese, Sign Language, Hindi, Sanskrit, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Russian, Arabic (Written) Studies: Macedonian, Mongolian, Tagalog | Message 58 of 116 13 November 2013 at 6:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I think that, while immersion is definitely one of the easiest, most natural and quickest
ways to advanced in a language, a good class can also be very helpful. Of course, supplementing a language course would help, for doing the bare minimum is never a good idea if you want to maximize improvement. Being an autodidact can also be very efficient, or at least it has been for me (I'm sure it varies from person to person). P.S. I'm very jealous of you going to Italy. I've yet to leave the U.S. and I've never lived anywhere where I can practice any of my languages, so going to Italy sounds amazing, especially considering that I love Italy independent of the Italian language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6377 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 59 of 116 13 November 2013 at 9:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5210 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 60 of 116 14 November 2013 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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The only thing I will admit is that a good language class can be very effective. I'm not saying that language
classes are better than anything else. All I'm saying that the combination of a good teacher, a good syllabus, good materials and a small class size is very effective. Here are the reasons: 1. An good teacher provdes a learning road map, presents, explains the material, provides corrective feedback and answers questions including points about current usage and particularly how to say things in the target language. 2. A class provdes structure and discipline. 3. One can learn from the mistakes of other learners. 4. A pleasant class atmosphere can make learning more agreeable. Finding a good class is another question. That's the real problem. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6330 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 61 of 116 15 November 2013 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes. There are many people who claim this, since it doesn't seem to work for them.
Please give an example, because I honestly don't understand the statement.
I'll take the bait. I find this hard to believe for someone fluent in 10 languages. Please elaborate.
The classroom is a tool. You can use it to help you learn languages, or not. But without self study, you will fail. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4608 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 62 of 116 15 November 2013 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
If the teacher is a native speaker (which ideally should be the case), then a class provides a native speaker model for the students to imitate and practice with. At my school, none of the language teachers was native speaking. In the classes I have subsequently attended as an adult, of varying kinds, only one was not a native speaker. (In the UK, given that for the modern languages, only those of the EU are taught, and that the EU provides for freedom of movement and employment between member countries, one would have expected the school situation to have changed, but I don't know if that is actually the case). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| I'm With Stupid Senior Member Vietnam Joined 3953 days ago 165 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Vietnamese | Message 63 of 116 15 November 2013 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Language classes obviously work, but it's worth pointing out that every class is a compromise of time available and money you have to spend. Given that this is the case, I'd be interested to know what people think the best compromise would be.
Would you rather spend your money on a smaller class size or more class time? And with certain languages, a native speaker also commands a hefty premium. I was looking at a job in Japan the other day and it said the class sizes are a maximum of 6, but also said that most students only study once a week for 50 minutes. Would they be better off going in a class 3 times the size 3 times a week instead, but getting less individual attention? I generally teach 3 times a week, 2 hours a time, which is a pretty good schedule, I think. But my maximum class size is 18 (although I only actually have one above 12), which can be a problem when it comes to giving individual feedback. It's not necessarily a problem when it comes to communication practice, however, you just need to know how to set activities up to have the whole class speaking. Some people seem to be of the opinion that speaking without a teacher listening is pointless. I don't think that's even slightly the case. But I guess if you could get actual one-on-one classes then you could use your limited time to greater effect by structuring it around your self-study and use your time with the teacher more efficiently. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6377 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 64 of 116 16 November 2013 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Basically, if s_allard brings up the issue of people getting self-study books and then quitting, it should be noted that many people quit classes too. But the problem with classes is not that people quit them, it's that people can be very diligent students and still never get anywhere. Of course some ineffective techniques can lead to that in independent learners as well, but generally in independent learning, time+effort lead to success. Edited by Serpent on 16 November 2013 at 7:06pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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