Hollywood Constructed Language Boom (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Hollywood Constructed Language Boom
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

24 messages over 3 pages: 1 2 3

Iversen
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Message 17 of 24

16 December 2011 at 4:53pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tolkien. As far as I am aware, he was the first author to create well developed languages for his stories. He created at least Dwarvish and Elvish, each with its own script. And Elvish had dialects as well.

Actually there is so little Dwarfish in his books that it doesn't amount to a complete language which anyone could start to learn - unlike Quenya
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Cabaire
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Message 18 of 24

16 December 2011 at 5:10pm | IP Logged

Khuzdul is a secret language not to be revealed to lesser beings like men. If you don't want to have some angry dwarves in your living room, swinging their war-axes and accusing you of a terrible sacrilge, do not learn it!
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Jeffers
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Message 19 of 24

16 December 2011 at 5:57pm | IP Logged

mrwarper wrote:

Jeffers wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tolkien.

I did. Post #8, penultimate paragraph. TLDR? ;)

I don't know what TLDR means, but if it means something like, "missed it cuz it was buried in a long post", then guilty as charged! Sorry. But in my defence, it was very much a passing reference.

Iversen wrote:

Jeffers wrote:

Actually there is so little Dwarfish in his books that it doesn't amount to a complete language which anyone could start to learn - unlike Quenya

My understanding is that he had wrote extensively about Dwarfish in his private notes. But I have no evidence to back that up.

EDIT: oh, and I'm pleased you used "Dwarfish" instead of following my example and using "Dwarvish". If my memory is correct, Tolkien preferred "Dwarfish".

Edited by Jeffers on 16 December 2011 at 5:58pm
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mrwarper
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Message 20 of 24

16 December 2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

I don't know what TLDR means,

"Too long, didn't read"

Quote:

but if it means something like, "missed it cuz it was buried in a long post", then guilty as charged!

Rightfully so, apparently. Your crime is also your punishment, though :)

Quote:

Sorry. But in my defence, it was very much a passing reference.

Of course; as I said, his case was so extreme that I thought it was in another league, well beyond the thread topic.

Tolkien himself said several times (and many people chose to ignore / disbelieve -- 'must be a genius downplaying his achievements' yadda yadda) that he wrote his books as fitting mythology for languages he developed just to please his aesthetic tastes, and not the other way around. I always found LOTR et al rather boring (yes, especially because of the 'languages' part) so I'm inclined to take his word for it.

Edited by mrwarper on 16 December 2011 at 6:33pm
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Hampie
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Message 21 of 24

16 December 2011 at 9:00pm | IP Logged

mrwarper wrote:

Jeffers wrote:

I don't know what TLDR means,

"Too long, didn't read"

Quote:

but if it means something like, "missed it cuz it was buried in a long post", then guilty as charged!

Rightfully so, apparently. Your crime is also your punishment, though :)

Quote:

Sorry. But in my defence, it was very much a passing reference.

Of course; as I said, his case was so extreme that I thought it was in another league, well beyond the thread topic.

Tolkien himself said several times (and many people chose to ignore / disbelieve -- 'must be a genius downplaying
his achievements' yadda yadda) that he wrote his books as fitting mythology for languages he developed just to
please his aesthetic tastes, and not the other way around. I always found LOTR et al rather boring (yes, especially
because of the 'languages' part) so I'm inclined to take his word for it.

Well, Tolkien was a language scholar in heart and soul. I believe that he even sent a mail to the Swedish translator
arguing with him what he thought was wrong in the Swedish version, which he obviously had read. Impressive man.
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Cabaire
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Message 22 of 24

16 December 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged

That quarrel is really abominable. But Snabba solstrålen for Quickbeam and so on is really akward.

Quote:

In terms of style, Ohlmark's prose is hyperbolic and laden with poetic archaisms even where the original uses simple or even laconic language.

But on the other hand I found it odd, that he uses highly colloquial forms like mej, dej, dom in the high fantasy style. Astrid may do this, but not a pompous translator like Ohlmarks (I have a copy of his Härskarringen in my library, so I checked again). Or does a Svede not feel this way?
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Dshödsh
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Message 23 of 24

17 December 2011 at 2:13am | IP Logged

Cabaire wrote:

My translation (Ohlmarks) uses the traditional spellings, which is entire in line with the genre and Ohlmark's apparent writing style in general. Writing mej, dej, dom would seem really awkward to me.
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Hampie
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Message 24 of 24

17 December 2011 at 7:20pm | IP Logged

Cabaire wrote:

That
quarrel is really abominable. But Snabba solstrålen for Quickbeam and so on is really akward.

Quote:

In terms of style, Ohlmark's prose is hyperbolic and laden with poetic archaisms even where the original
uses simple or even laconic language.

But on the other hand I found it odd, that he uses highly colloquial forms like mej, dej, dom in the
high fantasy style. Astrid may do this, but not a pompous translator like Ohlmarks (I have a copy of his
Härskarringen in my library, so I checked again). Or does a Svede not feel this way?

The trend regarding the use of mej, dej, sej in books began, I believe, during the 60-ies and reached its peak
around the middle of the 70-ies and then the use have been declining since. Nowdays you normally do not see that
in books, not even in dialogues, with the exception of comics. Dom instead of de/dem is the same thing, albeit
some of Sweden’s more prominent, say Jan Guilliou, do write it like that.

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